Hammering Strategies for Cymbals

[ryanmark]

Hello, first post here.

I am trying to learn how to hammer sheet metal into the correct shape for a cymbal. I haven't gotten a hold of any bronze sheet yet, but I've been working with stainless 304 and nickel silver 770. I cut a circle and hammered in the "cup" using a wooden die, and they start sounding like a cymbal.

Only problem is, I can't seem to shape them into a suitable profile; they end up very warped and I'm not able to correct it.

I've already read threads on other sites pertaining to this and I'm trying to hammer evenly and symmetrically. I can't really afford to keep warping my blanks by trial and error. Making cymbals is a somewhat secretive craft so not than many people are willing to share everything.

After the cup, or bell, is shaped, the blanks are basically raised in profile by hammering the bottom and then shrunk (I think is the term) by hammering the top to tighten the shape up and increase tension. Does anyone have any experience making similar shapes as the typical cymbal (hubcaps, large shallow bowls or circular trays, etc)? Any tips?

I am beginning to think I should have a wide, shallow concave die made and do the initial shaping by hammering the blank into the die, then tightening it up on my anvil (a chunk of steel with a domed top). Or, a hydraulic press is an option, too. But, that would present other issues such as springback, and I know this can be done with the tools I already have. Please help, Thanks!
Ryan

[Hotrod1932]

Welcome to Metalmeet Ryan. Not sure I've ever thought much about cymbal making before. For some reason I kind of thought that they were somehow made with wire that was spun and fuse welded or the like.

Don't see why one couldn't be hammered out I guess but I am thinking that the blank would have to be absolutely uniform in thickness when it was done. Metal spinning strikes me as a way to do this but I am no cymbal maker that's for sure. I have however made stuff that can make one heck of a racket when it falls on the floor!!! So don't see why it couldn't be done!

I have seen links and vids of steel drum making and I think cymbal making would be similar and that is why I made the statement it needs to be completely uniform threw out or you might end up with different tones depending on where it was struck.

Again welcome to Metalmeet! Who knows what all talent your going to find in this forum.

[oldgoaly]

I saw this on "How it's made" here is the video on Youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79PVQixZjak
Mike Rowe (Dirty Jobs) or John Ratenzberger (Made in America) visit Zildjian's Factory also. The hammering is done to the slug after it comes out of the foundry. tt

[ryanmark]

Thank you both.

Yes, Zildjian uses a press for the shaping stage. Also, a pneumatic hammer is used as well. Some companies, mainly in Turkey, still do it by hand, with just a hammer and anvil. There's a few videos but they don't show the entire process...just enough to get the basic idea.

[Dawai]

I did a radius rig on my ewheel, a gearbox and go cart wheel.. It rubs up against the top roller and goes around and around the adjustable radius center spindle.

Radius attachment is just a piece of Uni-strut and a slider with a 1/4" bolt on it. Kinda like the bead roller attachment..

The bead roller makes "warped up" circles just like you describe.. I made the ewheel rig to pre stretch them.. but not gotten back on this project.


I am working on some new air cleaners.. but.. they look like cymbals.. have a raised portion in the middle like a dome and flat around the edges. My thoughts are that air likes curves better than 90 degree turns and a domed air cleaner will out perform a flat one.

(Spinning metal)... perhaps what you want to learn.. look to Youtube for videos..

Don't aske me?? I am learning too.. I do things three or four different way to see what I like best..

[ryanmark]

Thanks a lot Dawai,

Spinforming is performed on some cymbals, but for some reason, only the very low cost brass cymbals seem to be made that way. I'll keep it in mind, though.

[ryanmark]

I also forgot to mention that cymbals with dense hammer marks are generally regarded highly, both for looks and sound. The hammer marks break up vibrations to make a more complex sound. A cymbal that was hammered into shape, by hand, looks and sounds a bit different than one that has only "superficial" hammering, or hammering after the initial shaping was performed with a machine. So, a completely hand-hammered cymbal usually fetches a higher price, even if the sound difference is minimal.

[Doug98105]

Originally Posted by ryanmark

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I've already read threads on other sites pertaining to this and I'm trying to hammer evenly and symmetrically. I can't really afford to keep warping my blanks by trial and error. Making cymbals is a somewhat secretive craft so not than many people are willing to share everything.

.................................................. ..............................................

Ryan

One thing to be aware of, if the material you're working with is common flat sheet hammering evenly and symmetrically might not do it.

Flat sheet has a significant "grain" to it from the rolling process at the mill. You might have to compensate for the grain in your hammering.

Note in the video how they cross rolled the blanks which should have done a lot to eliminate the directionality in the blank.

We had a press formed aluminum part about the size of a large cymbal. They were formed in the annealed condition and sent out for heat treating. After heat treating a pattern of holes were punched. If we weren't careful to orient the hole pattern with respect to the grain the part would come out looking like a potato chip. We wasted a lot of parts before we came up with a solution to the grain issue.

[ShawnMarsh]

It seems to me a cymbal is just a shallow bowl. If you search for making bowls, this is usually the first step in learning to shape metal.

You will always get some warping in metal shaping, it's impossible to hit exactly the same and perfectly uniform. Don't throw those blanks away, they could be straightened for sure. You just need to figure out what areas need to be shrunk/stretched to make it level back out.

One of the more advanced things I have seen is a panel being crowned, then worked back flat again. It may take time, but you will need to learn how to straighten them if you ever hope to profit as those are not wasted metal.

[ryanmark]

Thanks Doug and Shawn,

I still have the warped blanks. I'll keep working at them! I might try annealing them at some point.