.023 vs. .o30 for sheet metal

[Cobra06]

There seems to be much difference of opinion on which wire is best for sheet metal. I've always used .030 and it works for me. I use Harris 20G in My Lincoln 135+ (hate the soot but it works) and .030 in my MM 210. I am tempted to try .023 wire, but before I go out and buy a new liner, tips and wire , was wondering about the advantages if any. I know much of it is personal preference, just curious. From the technical stand point, what I've been taught is the larger the diameter the higher the minimal current is needed, and the penetration decreases.
David

[firstgenbird]

It's not essential that you swap the liner to try .023 wire. My 175 came with .023 wire and an .030 liner installed. I've used .023 wire with the .030 liner and it feeds okay on the M10 torch. You would need the correct contact tip but they are pretty cheap. A two pound spool of .023 wouldn't cost much. Give it a try and add to the debate. I'm still trying to draw concrete conclusions myself other than the bead is a bit higher with .023. I'm guessing you're 210 is like the 175 and you just turn the drive wheel around to a different drive groove.

[NOHOME]

I just went the other way: switched from 0.023 to JW Harris 20 G 0.030 wire. I do not see ever wanting to go back. I started using it on my bugeye project and am really sold on its ease of use with old tin. If you have a look at the project, you will see that there is still a LOT of welding left to do!

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2203663

[Cobra06]

I've used the 20 gauge for a couple of years in the 110 welder, but the 220 machine seems to like the .030 better. Never tried the .023 in the Miller but may as well experiment, after all learning new stuff is half the fun.
David

[firstgenbird]

David, if you're nearby, we could get together sometime and play with welders. I have some "twenty gauge", .023, .030 and .035 to play with. My welder is a MM175.

[Stanger]

1 vote for .023 Larry, how do you like your MM175? I'm thinking about purchasing one. Any problems with the WST?
Grant

[Cobra06]

Larry , would be fun. I'M a hike from Frederick. I live in th O.C. (Orange County Va. Home of the Orange Paint store, Orange Tire center, Orange Appliance store ect...)
Grant, you just can't get off with a vote, without a reason ( well I guess you can) why do you like the .023?

[firstgenbird]

That's so far South David, that all the cannons are pointed North. A bit much to drive.

Grant, I like the MM175. I've had no trouble with it. The only other MIG that I've used is a MM135 and that worked similarly well on sheet metal. So I don't have a lot to compare with. I've welded from 20 gauge sheet up to 1/8" thick square tube on the MM175. It's never gone into thermal shutdown. I was going to say it's never rats nested either, but it did tonight. But that spool of .023 had some rust starting through the copper on the outer turns. I pulled that corroded section of wire off and it ran beautifully through the .030 liner. I think I would be dissatisfied with a welder that didn't have infinately variable controls. I find I make small adjustments.

I did a test coupon tonight with .030 wire, .023 wire and "twenty gauge". I would vote for .030 but that's what I've been using lately, so my timing is more in tune with that. It would be more fair if I spent more time on each of the other two getting tuned up. I really don't like the soot from the twenty gauge wire, but when you grind one of those flat, the weld looks clean inside. I wasn't quite there on penetration. I think with another ten minutes tinkering, my results from .023 would be the same as on .030. The settings I used on the 175 are as follows. These numbers mean nothing on a different machine or with a different line voltage.

Wire type Wire Speed Volts
.030 32 2.6
twenty gauge 35 3.1
.023 35 3.0

Here's a photo. Try not to laugh.

[Stanger]

Grant, you just can't get off with a vote, without a reason ( well I guess you can) why do you like the .023?

Sorry, didn't have time for an explanation. I used a friend's welder for a long time, not knowing what he used for wire. Turns out he was using .030 and .035, never .023. I didn't care for it a bit. It just didn't feel right when I was welding 20-22 guage metal. I then started using another welder and couldn't get it to weld right. It had a 12 pound spool of .030 and when I switched it to .023, the problem was fixed. Looking back, I wonder if the spool was too large for the machine, causing feeding problems. If that wasn't it then maybe I just needed to tweak the machine a little more. The machine was tapped and I felt like I couldn't get a good voltage/wire feed combo for the .030 wire on sheetmetal. This all may have been operator error but .023 wire was night and day in this instance. Never tried the 20 ga. but it does look a bit sooty for my taste although the flatness of the weld does impress me. Thanks for the test Larry, theres nothing like a side-by-side comparison. Thanks for the review on the MM175 too, I think I'll pick one up when I have my pennies saved up. So anyway, 1 vote for the .023.
Grant

EDIT: Larry, what guage/thickness are those test coupons?

[Boogiemanz1]

Larry, were you using CO2 or mix gas in your comparison?......................john