What effect does wheel diameter have?

[Michael Moore]

I've looked around and I can't find anything that addresses this, though I did see a post from one other person who'd asked the question but the question doesn't seem to have been answered.

What are the reasons (other than price) for going with an 8" OD upper wheel vs a 9" OD upper wheel?

For the lower wheels it appears that 2" OD and 3" OD are both common sizes. Is the smaller OD wheel chosen for use inside of parts with tighter curves?

Does the wheel OD become an issue when trying to smooth big bumps, with a larger or smaller OD making it easier to push the bumpy surface between the wheels? Or does it instead have some benefit in wheeling very smooth metal?

Also, I saw it mentioned that a wider upper wheel can help to stabilize a sheet, but if (for example) a 4" wide wheel is only $25 more than a 3" wide wheel, why doesn't everyone just go with the wider wheel?

cheers,
Michael

[FriarTuck]

Hi Michael, you have done your homework. With regards to upper wheel diameter, I believe that the larger the wheel, the closer you approximate rolling against a "flat platten", which would give the best results. In reality, I like the inertia of a larger wheel. When rolling over mallet walnuts, the inertia makes the work a little easier. There are whose who like the wheels as lite as possible also, so much of this is personal preference. There isn't much difference between an 8" and a 9" wheel. I personally use two diameters for uppers. I have 2x7 and 3x7 uppers, and then a 4x9. My 2" set is on a medium sized bench wheel, and I use it for smaller jobs, and as you mentioned tighter radius'. I use the 3x7, 4x9, and my 3x3 and TinMan series lower anvil sets on my large wheel which I have affectionetly named my "Hoosier Daddy". Normally I would use the 3x3 lowers with the 3x7 upper. They are soft anvils, and the upper is a really heavy Hoosier MetalMaster Series wheel. For general use they are the best. I'll put on the 4x9 and use it in conjunction with the 3x3's for larger panels because I work alone, and it helps with stability as you have already mentioned. I have a special set of Hoosier's 3 1/2" x 3 1/2" hardened "Tinman" series lower anvils, that I will use with the 4x9, to planish welds and such. As you can see, there are combinations that work best for different applications. To address your question about just using a wide wheel for every lower set, I personally like to be able to see up close, and a larger wheel blocks visibility, and there is nothing keeping a person from using a 2" wide upper with a 3x3 lower set. After all, the "flat" on the lower is doing all the work, and that is typically only a 1/4" to 1" wide on a 3x3 set of anvils. For a personal pick, if I could only have one set, it would be the 3" set upper and lower. I do mostly car panels and don't work on motorcycles at all. I think if I were a cycle guy, I would pick the 2" set. This is all personal preference of course. Hope this helps a little.

Tuck

[Peter Miles]

With regards to upper wheel diameter, I believe that the larger the wheel, the closer you approximate rolling against a "flat platten", which would give the best results. In reality, I like the inertia of a larger wheel.

Well, Tuck, maybe I should go ahead and get the rim ground on this 4" x 60" wheel! The material in that rim is somewhat akin to arranging 45 4x4 wheels in a big circle.

[FriarTuck]

Dang Peter, don't get your finger caught in that one. You could push around 1/4" plate with that thing. (But why would you want to?)

Tuck

[Kerry Pinkerton]

I've noticed that the larger the diameter the smoother the 'ride'. The smaller wheels tend to fall down into the walnuts and the larger just ride over them and crush them down faster. I have put 2x2's in one of our machines that normally runs 2x3s and it's pretty easy to feel the difference.

Randy Fergusons monster wheel has about a 11" upper and 4" anvils and while the frame is nowhere near as stiff as it looks it is the most amazingly smooth and effective ewheel I've ever used. I attribute that to the large diameter rollers primarily.

There is a significant difference in price between a 3x8 and a 4x9..about $115 to be more precise for a Hoosier upper.

Personally I can't tell the difference between a 3x8 and a 3x9 but, oddly enough, can feel the difference in a 4x9.

And having said all that, I don't think the sheet metal cares. PSI is PSI.

[tdoty]

Originally Posted by kerry pinkerton

I've noticed that the larger the diameter the smoother the 'ride'. The smaller wheels tend to fall down into the walnuts and the larger just ride over them and crush them down faster. I have put 2x2's in one of our machines that normally runs 2x3s and it's pretty easy to feel the difference.

And that is just part of why I use 2x3 anvils The other part is that, especially on tighter radius panels, the edge of the anvil is awfully close to the axle, and, hence, the yoke as well. The extra 1/2" of clearance comes in handy sometimes! The same effect can sometimes be seen on 3x3s, IMHO.

Tim D.

[JonD]

I'm using a 4x9 upper and like the feel of it.

Originally Posted by FriarTuck

To address your question about just using a wide wheel for every lower set, I personally like to be able to see up close, and a larger wheel blocks visibility.

I was concerned about this, so I left enough room to fit a dovetail between the quill and upper yoke. This would give the ability to offset the upper for better visability when running close to the edge. The other benefit would be the ability to quicky change between 4x9, gocart slick & tipping wheel. Have you ever tried to hold an expensive 4x9 with one hand while trying to insert the axle :o. By having dovetail recievers on the frame it would give you somewhere to store other uppers when not in use.

To change between 3x3 & 3x2 lower holders I fabbed a simple quickchange lower using 1 inch round and reciever.

Here are a couple of photo's :





Regards

Jon

[Gene_Olson]

Where the wide wheels really shine is when you are moving on the arrangement aspect of your part.

The wider the wheel the easier it is to tweek arrangement without messing up the shape of the part.

That ewheel is the biggest most versitile C-clamp/bender/planisher/stretcher/tuck crusher in my shop.

I have a 4x9 and a 2x8 for uppers and 3" anvils, but also a couple special purpose 2" anvils I got to finish off special shapes. I agree about the upper dovetail mount. It would be nice to make them so the working surface matched up too (ie the yoke would be 1/2" longer for the 2x8 wheel and an inch longer for the 4x7 slick.) Yet another project for my copious free time. :roll:

[Doug98105]

Dave Probst (sp) has a nice discussion of diameter and width of wheels/anvils on his site. Unfortunately I don't remember where it is. Maybe someone has the link.

Doug

[Ernie Ferrucci]

Doug

Is this it: http://davepropst.com/Article/Art3/Article3.htm?