The Bugatti Build Project - a design exercise

[kerrystagmer]

errr mike the top picture in your last post is the 57 bug not the stutz. it would be 117" not 145" but your right the proposed car superimposed looks bigger then the old guy

did I miss something? I often do...

[Wray Schelin]

Wow, I went to bed around 2:00 AM, woke up at 8:00AM and Bingo, Alex has a photoshop comparison finished.

Alex you are the man

As Alan pointed out, we are so thankful and lucky to have you helping with this project. It just doesn't get any better than this!!!

Thanks also to JJ Horst for joining the design team. Your Bugatti expert advise will be much appreaciated.

JJ Horst, do you know Luis Huber the artist that penned the design which we are trying massage into a viable project? It would be great to have his comments added if he is fluent in English. His design is the starting point for this exercise, and we intend to give him his due mention and credit for penning such a wonderful Bugatti interpretation.

[Wray Schelin]

Originally Posted by kerrystagmer

this thread is hard to keep up with!

I saw a couple of pages back someone had sized up a drawing of the proposed engine? has it been checked against the 105" wheelbase drawing?

That would be a deciding factor as the lump is tall and long.

The nice thing about these motors is as they were in production from 48 till the mid 80's there are piles of them available. there are 3 displacements (in USA cars) 3.4, 3.8 and 4.2 liter

Higher compression engines are more desireable and the engine numbers end with compression. So a 32435-8 would have 8 to 1. you will find 7,8 and 9's. This may not really matter as Jag's use piston height to set compression and I assume we are talking a full rebuild. Later 1960's heads are prefered by most , but I've been told early 80's fuel injection heads have the largest valves. Anyone know the truth to this?

Am i stiring things up? I am under the assumption this is the engine settled on?

Hi Kerry,

The engine camps around here are worse than beer fueled soccer fans . Everyone has their favorite and they get P.O.ed real quick when "their engine " is sitting on the back bench.:o

The Jaguar six has the correct look for this project and as you pointed out they come in a million flavors.

The design has enough room to accomodate many different engine choices. Our main concern right now should be proportion massaging of the body design so we can get people into the cockpit and have room for a frame structure.

As a group our overall objective is to build the body, which we can do. We have the talent and we have the money already in the till waiting to be spent on sheets of aluminum and the cost of materials for making the buck.

We don't have the funds for the other components that make up a whole car. All we need to be concerned with now is that we have a viable design in place for everything
besides the body. Build the body first and the rest of the components will happen.

I hope that explains the exercise more clearly.

[Pedalcar]

Hi Gang

will get the measurements posted tonight.

I have the chassis in SW maybe a good start.

It is based on a Ford Scorpio 2.9i V6

nown as a Merkur Scorpio in the US.

Ben

[anders nørgaard]

Originally Posted by Pedalcar

Hi Gang

will get the measurements posted tonight.

I have the chassis in SW maybe a good start.

It is based on a Ford Scorpio 2.9i V6

nown as a Merkur Scorpio in the US.

Ben

Hi Ben,
Thanks

Wray,
Then we'll just have to find some sponsors for engine, transmission, wheels, tires and so on. Shouldn't be a problem.... when the time comes !!!

Kerry,
The JAG engine will fit. No problem
Only thing I don't like about the JAG is I've heard that the cylinder heads often crack :o :o

[Wray Schelin]

This phase of the project, choosing proportions and measurements is the most important phase. Debate is good, we must remain open minded so we can find the correct blend of ergonomics and aesthetics.

We must all learn from the process because the lesson here is universal. Pictures and drawings are percieved differently by us all. When a picture is transformed into a real 3D fullsize actual shape the perception changes again.

We have to keep massaging this design until we find what works.

Debate is the learning process for us all, in the end we all have to compromise and settle on the best design and proportions that we can come up with.

I'm sure it is the same at professional car design studios. You have, the penny pinching bean counters chopping and slashing at every turn, engineers spreading their gloom about ... " you can't do that" , and the design manager pulling rank all the time. It's probably trench warfare everyday in a car design studio.

We are lucky!

[kerrystagmer]

crack? not a problem I've ever heard and I'm pretty much a jag man.

warping is a different story, thats a common problem, mostly in early xk-e form as the radiator and fan combination is just silly. the fan is a little prop that looks like it came from a toy airplane. I have many miles in a series 1.5 car that while retaining its tiny opening has small dual fans with a shroud. so long as the fans are electrically working (a whole different problem!) it works great.

Jag engines have one flaw (in stock form), its commonly known... thou shall NOT rev over 5500... this is a long stroke engine and its not happy about overreving. Modern rods and lightening of the crank pretty much fix this (within reason!)

anyway wray doesnt want us to concentrate on this right now, but so long as there is enough cooling there should be no problem.

The whole picture on this thread is pretty exciting. I'm in the process of aquiring a large cnc machining station and am learning (self teaching) to draw in 3d. I've been doing all my drawing in Acad for the plasma table but now we are changing over to Bobcad for machining and the 3 axis router. basicly this thread is keeping me on task while fooling around with Alex's IGS files to get used to the program.

Is the idea to make the body bucks like the metal ones on the Talbo site? where the buck is incoporated into the body? I thought that was quite facinating.

[toolmanMike]

Originally Posted by kerrystagmer

errr mike the top picture in your last post is the 57 bug not the stutz. it would be 117" not 145" but your right the proposed car superimposed looks bigger then the old guy

did I miss something? I often do...

You didn't miss anything but our Bugatti image is a little oversize in the picture. The notion of putting a solid model image in the photo is excellent.

[anders nørgaard]

Originally Posted by kerrystagmer

crack? not a problem I've ever heard and I'm pretty much a jag man.

warping is a different story, thats a common problem, mostly in early xk-e form as the radiator and fan combination is just silly. the fan is a little prop that looks like it came from a toy airplane. I have many miles in a series 1.5 car that while retaining its tiny opening has small dual fans with a shroud. so long as the fans are electrically working (a whole different problem!) it works great.

Jag engines have one flaw (in stock form), its commonly known... thou shall NOT rev over 5500... this is a long stroke engine and its not happy about overreving. Modern rods and lightening of the crank pretty much fix this (within reason!)

anyway wray doesnt want us to concentrate on this right now, but so long as there is enough cooling there should be no problem.

The whole picture on this thread is pretty exciting. I'm in the process of aquiring a large cnc machining station and am learning (self teaching) to draw in 3d. I've been doing all my drawing in Acad for the plasma table but now we are changing over to Bobcad for machining and the 3 axis router. basicly this thread is keeping me on task while fooling around with Alex's IGS files to get used to the program.

Is the idea to make the body bucks like the metal ones on the Talbo site? where the buck is incoporated into the body? I thought that was quite facinating.

Hi Kerry,
I know. I don't want to concentrate about engine right now either, but someone asked me about the size of a JAG engine and I just answered that question

I think the stations for the buck are going to be CNC -cut/-routed from plywood.

[JD in SoCal]

Just 2 quick thoughts after seeing the rendering in the street scene:

1. the cabin looks smaller (relative to overall car size) than I had thought from previous pics

2. as Anders touched on in a post, the wheels/axles are way out at the corners of this car, especially at the front end. This makes wheelbase comparisons to more modern cars be less valid. It might be more useful to consider how overall length compares to other cars with which we are familiar (as a reference point only) and less on wheelbase. I am only suggesting this type of size comparison as a reference point to put some scale to it; I'm not suggesting that this car needs to be the same size as any particular existing car.

The cabin size and engine bay sizes need to work, and it has to look good when built. Judging the proper proportions is proving trickier than I would have expected, even with the outstanding work by Alex and others.

JD