The Bugatti Build Project - a design exercise

[Boogiemanz1]

HI Curt, welcome to Metalmeet. I see your intrests include early sports cars.

The bugatti build in our case is not intended to produce a clone of a car that already exists. Our intention is to use Solidworks to design an automobile body resembling some drawings that Wray discovered. We want to show that our group could take drawings produced by that program and build portions of the vehicle at different meets, or by different individuals...then assemble the vehicle at our International Meet. The chassis is another part of the puzzle. It will use modern components.

If we can accomplish this, it will be a first in the automotive world, and for an internet based organization..........join us ...............john

[Wray Schelin]

Originally Posted by curt66

...if this were a car that were real and discovered...needing a total restoration, the cost would far exceed the given budget...the cost of rebuilding a bugatti motor alone could be half of it just itself...for example: the restoration of laurens T57 atlantic took four times this amount...the restoration...no R&D involved...

i'm sure this fellows imagination exceeds what someone could do for 250K...i'd sure love to have this car built for 250K, to my expectations....i'm thinking he's expecting something like zausners torpedo...which went well over this budget...just under laurens T57...

and only one year?...this person better be well seasoned...and know some seriously skilled people that can be available for a year...and know how to make things happen...not your basic garage hobbyist types...

the design is *****in...don't get me wrong...but it doesn't fit with either the time or cost budget for building something from scratch...and doing it right...by right i mean a bugatti motor and drive-train...proper wheels, suspension....a V-8 just would not be right, and some modern mustang suspension would be a joke...a motor/drivetrain from an EB-110 and suspension from a T57 of 59 would be along the proper lines, and there goes the budget...

just my 2 cents...


Cp
www.juicebrakes.com

Hi Curt,

Welcome to the Bugatti Build thread. Your comments are on the mark if this was a car being built like you perceive it. To get the real picture you really have to read the whole thread otherwise you are reacting to an incomplete picture and understanding.

This is a group exercise only in how to assemble the information needed to build a scratch built car. We are trying to use SolidWorks to build the car first in virtual reality. Once we have a plan assembled (and there is no real time table because this is a volunteer effort) then we have the ability to actually built the car. We will also have digital files which will enable us to decentralize the build.

We could have 30 people all over the US and some foreign countries working on some aspect of this build if we first assemble the digital information.

Costs will be for materials and transportation only so they will be a lot less than $250000.00. We are most concerned with building the body because that is the focus of MetalMeet, but we don't want to build a body that has no purpose or potential that is why we will also assemble the information needed to do a complete build.

Try to make it to MetalMeet if you can this year. Good to see you joining in and posting.

[curt66]

hey John...


...i've found in the past working with drawings sent in solidworks that if the builder doesn't have a strong footing in fabrication/design/application...and the designer has never built anything...then it could get interesting really fast...again...it's the experience of the people involved that will make all the difference...time being the issue here...also if the components are all made in different places and then brought together for assembly...then the designer and the builders really need to be in serious communication...i mean like serious...a year is not much time at all to have to take a step back...

...the discussion of traditional methods as opposed to cad is a good one to consider...i've found that people really let technology hang them up, and keep things from moving forward...hearing stories of what people like watson and lesovsky did with the tools they had...you really realise that it comes down to experience of materials and use...look at the 917 porsche...from a blank piece of paper to 25 built for homologation in nine months!!!...with R&D included...pencils and drawing boards...and a ton of experience....the 1914 GP peugeot team of four cars built from scratch in under 6 months...maybe even under 4 months...what i'm getting at is that people have done much more in the past with much less technology available to them...solidworks is a really cool program though...and will allow things to happen quickly...if you're only designing the body, and not the whole chassis, then a year should be enough time...jimmy over at moals said to allow about 1000 hours for a complete body...

it's a neat project though...i'll keep abreast of things as they unfold...




Cp
www.juicebrakes.com

[curt66]

hey Wray....


...50 pages is a bit much to cypher through...hehe...i've gone through the first few and the last few...and so i've gotten only some of the picture...it's sounds like it's pretty well under way then...?...and the drawings look really cool...

...i'll be in japan for about a month and then over to italy in nov. to visit some shops and check out the padua swap meet...and that is about all the time i can get away with this year...next year is a full plate spilling into most of 2007...when is the projected date for the bug project?...


i thought that the 250K was for a completed car...?...



Cp
www.juicebrakes.com

[seasalt]

1937 Bugatti Type 57SC Gangloff Drop Head Coupe

[curt66]

hey guys...


...on the plane the other day to japan i brought the usual research material and realised that i posted some incorrect facts the other day...it was not the 1914 peugeot team...although it was ernest henry as the designer...it was in 1918 rene thomas was invited back to indy where he'd won in 1914 on a delage...he contacted his friend from from the peugeot days...ernest henry...and together they plotted a new car...which they pitched to ernest ballot...whose company had never built a race car...but liked and agreed to finance the project...though not to build two cars...but a team of four...from scratch...the only hitch was that to make the shipping date from france to america...the team had to be ready in 120 days..."the first car was running in 102"...and again everything was done from scratch...design, castings, machining, assembling, testing the new motor and drivetrain...blahblahblah...quite an incredible feat in any age...but moreso an age of pencils, and the seat of your pants...henry is the unknown father of the modern high-perfomance motor...but he also designed the whole car...transmission, differential, ect...and of course he died broke and unknown to the world...a very interesting and long story, but one with nothing to do with metals...so of little interest in these forums...


have fun guys...i'll be back mid-oct...




Cp
www.juicebrakes.com

[seasalt]

http://autorestorations.co.nz/bugattitype49.htm

Not directly relevant, but what a good engine shot. The site has some great shots of the full rebuild of a type 49, by a New Zealand firm. Might give ideas for the Bugatti build....

I assume that originally the motor would be nowhere near as polished......

Like the history there Curt. I get that predictable feeling too. In a go-for-broke scenario, wouldn't you love to put a straight eight in the Build Bug? They went out of production in the mid fifties, some like Pontiac, still side valve. The V8 just took over; stronger, cheaper, lighter, more compact.

Buick had a 340cube ohv straight eight, in '54 wasn't it? Are there any of those motors still around, and are they good enough? Pics look very plain, so it would need a dress-up? (Dumb?)

Mercedes used a derivative of its F1 inline eight in the 300SLR, taking the drive off the centre of the crank (to avoid crank flex/twist). I guess that was the straight eight's swansong. Moss drove one and won, often. There weren't many made.....

I believe Jag motors tend to overheat, so they need a good cooling system. They do have a classic look, and are still readily available, etc.

[Wray Schelin]

Check out this video from the Catia website.



http://www.3ds.com/flashgallery/imagine/

[curt66]

...is a very viable one...they can give lots of reliable horsepower...and are directly related to the D type that gave the SLR mercs a run in the '55 season...if levegh hadn't put his into the stands at le mans the outcome might have been a little different...but the jag motor fits the bill...more narrow than a V motor...and makes a great noise...delivers great torque...and wray should know where to find a a decent one...



Cp
www.juicebrakes.com

[seasalt]

it will probably be then.

It has dawned on me that Wray has made a lot of Jag panels and probably often for people who know what they're doing with Jag motors. The racing history speaks for itself. I know its a practical decision, especially since the body (and chassis?) are the real focus, and not the mechanicals...