Erco/Marchant Dies?

[Travis B.]

I'm hoping someone could tell me if the complete Ecro #1447 Shrinker or Stretcher die holder and jaw assembly fits directly into the Marchant 6F machine. If not what needs to be modified?

Travis B.

[kkathary]

Erco jaws and ramps will not fit in a marchant. The jaws and ramps are taller on one of them. Also marchant uses heat treated D2 tool steel for their ramps. D2 is pretty hard to machine before heat treat. If you have a marchant I'd sell the erco ramps and jaws then bite the bullet and buy the stuff from marchant. The marchant jaws use a far superior mounting set up for their jaws. Erco jaws are prone to breaking if not used with care, marchant jaws are not. I have an erco kicker, the ramps are only heat treated on the top where the jaws slide on them and the bottom half is left soft so you can drill the holes for a particular machine. You might be able to remachine the lower half to fit a marchant. An erco also has the 2 ramps plus the upper ram that the upper ramp mounts to, a marchant uses a one peice upper ram and ramp. If that can't be done you could have someone machine ramps to hold erco jaws but fit in the marchant. Then have them heat treated and surface ground where the jaws sit on them.

Kyle

[Travis B.]

My situation is: I have a Marchant 6F that's on the other side of the country being stored until I finish my Airforce career but it's missing the Ramps/Dies, but at my current location I have access to Erco dies through a friend that I could possibly use to make copies. I thought about shelling out the greenbacks to Marchant but I'd rather explore the options and somehow stick to a budget. Kyle, what makes the Erco's more susceptible to breaking? Thanks for the info.

I'm interested in hearing from anyone that has the 6F or comparable set-up and possibly get some dimensions or pics of the ramp/die assembly that they use. Any info is greatly appreciated.

Travis B.

[Gonejunking]

Hi Travis
I have a 6f in one of my shops.
I will try to upload the manual for it this weekend. I can go out a measure it, if you need the dimentions.

[anders nørgaard]

Hi Guys,

There are plans and pics of Marchant dies in either Wray or Dutch Comstocks albums in the gallery!

[Travis B.]

Originally Posted by Gonejunking

Hi Travis
I have a 6f in one of my shops.
I will try to upload the manual for it this weekend. I can go out a measure it, if you need the dimentions.

Jeffrey,

I sent you a PM with my information when needed. Thanks!


Anders,

I didn't have much luck finding those drawings. I'll keep looking and thanks.


Travis B.

[anders nørgaard]

Travis,

I'll see if I can find them and post a link!
Found these:
http://www.metalmeet.com/photopost/s....php?photo=931
http://www.metalmeet.com/photopost/s....php?photo=601
http://www.metalmeet.com/photopost/s...y.php?cat=3665

[kkathary]

Travis, marchant jaws have a very shallow groove in the bottom of the jaws that sort of an H shaped pice bolts into then sits on the ramps, and pins holdthe jaws down and keeps them from coming off the ramp. Erco jaws have a very deep groove in them that a blade goes into. The blade is probably 1/8 inch thick. It has rectangulare holes in the top part of blade for the pins to ride in, and round holes in the bottom for another set of pins to hold the blade in the ramp. The thickness of an erco jaw from the slot to the working part of the jaw is probably less than half an inch, on a marchant I'd say it's at least doubled. That contributes to them breaking, one other contribution is the gear like teeth on erco jaws, if the tips of the teeth don't touch the bottom on the other jaw since their on an angle it acts like a wedge and pushes the apart. This coupled with the relative thiness of the top of the jaw, can cause breaks. I have marchant ramps and jaws for a larger machine and some of the smaller jaws for a 6F. I plan on making ramps that will go in the erco but accept marchant jaws. If you do get erco jaws and ramps look them over carefully, make sure they match well coming together and check the hieght of the jaws next to each other, years of restippling and mismatched sets can make for a single jaw being taller than it's mate which will not work. I have 2 sets for my erco. One set is a total of 3/16 taller than the other set.

Kyle

[Dutch Comstock]

You should be able to machine adapters to allow you to use the erco dies in your marchant. The other thing to consider is you can buy an erco machine cheaper than your marchant and then sell your marchant.
The bottom adapter would be very simple as marchant uses a slot and a bolt to hold bottm die, an easily made adapter. the upper die on the marchant is very tall and this allows you to have room to make an adapter also. Remember on the top die where tha ball contaci area is you adapter will have to be made out of quality tool stall and proprly heattreated or it will wear out quickly. Dutch

[kkathary]

Dutch, I got to thinking about it. And a 6F lower block mounts the same as the erco. Only the larger machines with larger ramps and jaws mount the way you said. But as you said the upper block is one peice instead of two. An erco lower ramp may just go right into the 6F but I'm not sure. I've only seen pics of a 6F, and it had the same style pins in the lower block. The guy who started marchant designed the erco 1447 then left to start marchant. He improved on the design alot. I think the larger machines are their flag ship stuff and the 6F is considered an economy model. Although it's price doesn't seem very economical to me. Also erco's have been bringing as much as 3500 and the last marchant 6F I saw on ebay had srinking and stretching dies and ramps, and it brought around the same. I'd do whatever it takes to keep the marchant and to get marchant die's and ramps. If you do you'll have a better machine.

Kyle