Panels for my Model A.......

[Gonejunking]

Hi Anders
I liked your post, and it cleared up a few points for me. My 2c it should stay here, as it go's along with what Tim is trying to do.
Just looking at what Tim is doing, I think he made a mistake by putting the lip on the panel before he got to the shape he wanted.
When I get home tonight, I will try to make the same panel without the flange and see if I can make some more scrap metal!
Tim, keep posting.

[anders nørgaard]

Hi Jeffrey,

Thanks

I also read Randy's last post to Tim, about waiting to make the flange, after you form the sheet. ( That was when I was posting mine

The flange was also the last shape I put into my "Mini A Quarter Panel"

Anders DK

[CCWKen]

Yea Anders, that's what I'm talking about!

Tim, you can't get that lower area in the corner to roll under simply by stretching. You'll end up with a "spare tire" look. :? You'd have to stretch the whole panel and leave the bottom alone to get it under the panel plane. And, you want a slight bow in all the panels. (Not flat) That gives strength to the panels and keeps them from oil canning.

I wouldn't make a single panel until you get the body framing finalized and DONE! Wood or metal. That's going to tell you where your fastening points are going to be and where to put the flanges and leafs. It will work as a skeleton buck too.

The over-radius and looseness in the back is too much metal--Over rolled in the corner. The "too soon" flange is a good point too.

One other note: The A's have a reinforcing strip on both the quarter and the center panel at both joints. This holds the shape of the panels and keeps them from buckling the flange. The strip was spot welded to the inside of the flange. The panels are then bolted together with a "T" molding in between. The T molding covers the seam. The bottom of the panels have a leaf that is bolted to the sub-frame. (Body Frame!)

[Randy Ferguson]

Hi Anders,

As far as I'm concerned, your post needs to stay here, and you are welcome to post it in the 'metalshaping challenge' forum as well.

I'm glad you learned something.

If you had used .040 or thicker material, do you think you would still need to shrink????

If I were building Tim's panel, I would do it 100% in the english wheel. No shrinking required!!

[anders nørgaard]

Hi Randy,

Thanks

If you had used .040 or thicker material, do you think you would still need to shrink????

NO. I don't think that would be necessary. I think I would just wheel alot around the corner and then wheel the sides along the lines. Probably alot more in the lower section, where the panel has to 'bend in under the body'


there's a larger pic in my gallery

Anders DK

[tdoty]

Anders, Nice work! Maybe one of these days I'll get it right !


Randy,

No pics yet, but I took your advice and made up a rudimentary wireform. There's not a lot to it, just 2 more stations (besides the wooden door mock up), but it does give more info. Since I'm still waiting for the welder my girlfriend bought me for Christmas, building a wireform wasn't going to happen. Then I had an idea, and went with it. I just silver soldered the 1/4" rod to the conduit frame :roll: .

I also cheated a bit, I'd like to learn to make this panel, but found repairing the screw up a bit discouraging. I cut a new piece of aluminum and have it bent to the curve - even had it Clecoed and clamped to the frame - but it has no shape to it yet. I still have the old panel to correct too. Learning how to do it right and how to undo the wrong in one project? Why? Well, I've always said that knowing what NOT to do is as important as knowing what TO do - as well as knowing how to fix it if you do what you you're not supposed to do. Maybe I can learn all 3?

The hammer marks out toward the edge? I honestly don't remember, but I think they came from me trying to force the panel into arrangement. They are in the "problem" corners of the panel.

I'll post some more pics soon.

Thanks for the help!

Tim D.

[tdoty]

Okay, here come the pics!

I'll start off with a scary one - that's me using the "belly brake". Made that beater bag the other night to replace the 2 I sold at MM04 (only had an 8" and 12" bag to work with since then ):


Here's a shot of the new panel clecoed to the framework, along with the notes about what it needs where - so far - not that they're legible, but they are there:


Here is the panel from a different angle:

You can see that the panel is larger than it needs to be right now. Should I trim it before shaping, or leave it?

Here is a shot of the wireform from the rear:


The wireform is simply 1/4" rod silver soldered to the conduit framework. Since I don't have my welder yet, soldering it was about the only way to go. The shape of the wireform "stations" was copied from the door mock up, which was copied from the cowl.

Here's it is from the side.


The above shot is about as far away as I can get - I was standing in one of my toolboxes while I shot it :shock: .

Here's a pic of one of my solder joints:


The next pic is a shot looking down to the bottom of the panel attached to the buck. As expected, it gets loose about 1/2 - 2/3 of the way down the panel.


Here is a shot near the top of the panel. It was hard to get some of these pics considering the lack of organization and space in my garage.


Here is another view of the fit at the bottom of the panel:


There are basically 3 approaches here: shrink the bottom, stretch the top, or a combination of the 2. I'm somewhat opposed to the shrinking idea, that'd be quite a few tucks I think :x . My family and neighbors are pretty tolerant of my late night garage escapades, but that much hammering is likely to attract some attention :wink: . I think stretching will be much quieter 8) .

Randy, a review of my progress thus far?

Tomorrow I'll try fitting the "bad" panel to the buck - with the flange flattened out, of course .

Thanks again!

Tim D.

[anders nørgaard]

Hi (again) Tim,

Great pics. Tells alot about what you're up against :shock:

You can see that the panel is larger than it needs to be right now. Should I trim it before shaping, or leave it?

Wouldn't do anything about the upper edge, but the excess material in the lower corner will be something that is gonna fight you. I'd cut it of, just leaving an inch or so

Keep up the good work

Anders DK

[tvand]

Hi Tim, I'm watching your progress with great interest. I've got a 29 cowl that is longing to be a track roadster similar to what you're working towards. It'll have a Jag motor and 37 Ford hubs and wheel. I like the wide five look. On your question about rimming the panel at Ron Fournier's workshop 2 of his rules are "anything to move the metal" and "don't work more metal than you have to" so the belly brake is OK and trim the panel as you go. Nice project and good luck.
Ted

[Randy Ferguson]

Tim,

Please allow me to give you some guidance before youstart shaping another panel.

The lower edge only 'appears to need a lot of shrinking.

Why does it 'appear' this way, but in fact, not actually be the case???

As for trimming the edges, the general rule is to leave 1" around the perimeter, AFTER factoring in flanges, etc. On your panel, it isn't going to make much of a difference, as there's not that much metal to move. Remember to stay focused only on the area you had circled on the other panel.

Anders model mimics what you are trying to achieve. Look at where he did his shaping.

Before doing anything more to this panel, though, think about my previous question and get back with us on your thoughts.
The answer is simple!!!