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"Viva La Difference"
First off I'm going to "Try my best" to state my goal for this post right up front so hopefully it will "Cut Down" on the confusion.
Goal: To "DISCUSS" the differences in peoples goals as relates to the subject of metal shaping.
(If your opposed to this goal please press the "Back button on your computer Now.)
What brought about this post...and why do I care?
There was a post I started that's stated goal was to start a discussion on a subject related to metal shaping, during the discussion Richard Crees (AKA Rod Doc) posted what amounted to a total rebuke of the efforts and stated that I was going about everything wrong and that I should only follow advise from "Experts" like him with 40 years in the business.
There was no need to discuss anything I should just start to beat out a complicated fender from a 30 style car and if I possessed the innate abilities and had been born with them like he had then I would succeed or at least find out that I didn't have it in me to begin with.
What ensued was a separation into two distinct groups and the entire post effectively came to an end with loads of anger and misunderstanding for everyone involved. I asked that the post be shut down rather than be responsible for more problems and a return to the type of behavior that has fractured the metal shaping community at least three distinct times in the recent past.
I then told myself to never post again and move on with life on a much more happy note, but it has bothered me that this happened and that it has happened to so many people in the past.
I spent some time going over all the posts and trying to decide what "Might" (as in my interpretation) have gone wrong and where might lie the clues to what goes wrong in these discussions.
Here is what I concluded.
Myself and Richard Crees have two distinct sets of goals driving the desire to shape sheet metal.
As I have stated I am "semiretired" I didn't shape sheet metal for a living, I am an inventor and innovator by nature. I like to see how philosophy relates to complicated goals and how it might be employed to help better understand everything. I wish to build parts for motorcycles and build "innovative" tools related to both industries. I also thought that it would be good to include some humor and try to have fun in the pursuit.
Going by what Richard stated his need is to accomplish the goal at hand to make the most amount of money in the shortest amount of time. He needs to make a living at this and has for 40 years and he knows how to do it. He seems to want people up to speed as fast as possible and making money at this as fast as possible and anything else is a waste of time and is a futile effort. Lots of talking is a waste of time and all the frivolity is likewise a waste of time that would be better spent making more money.
See where I'm getting here? Two totally different goals two distinctly different lives with way different "needs" and viewpoints.
Depending on where your life fits into the "Big Scheme" of things you could side with one or the other (or neither). If you are trying to feed a family and have to make a living fixing cars you could easily side with Richard as being correct.
If you are learning this as a goal for a hobby and want to do a home project with no real time frame in mind and learning this as a subject is your goal then I might be more correct to you.
What has happened so many times in the past is that a person decides that their way and their goals and how they do things is the only true goal, and just like when people decide that their religion is the only true religion and they know who the only true god is war breaks out.
The failure is in the thought that you "Know anything to be true" to begin with, and that you should force your "Truth" onto others and they will either do it your way or you will put whatever pressure you can muster to make them conform. In history this has gone right up to actually trying to kill whoever doesn't believe what you do with the hope that if they are eradicated all that will be left is "right minded people"...just like you.
For thousands of years these struggles for control of "Right vs. Wrong" have resulted in huge conflicts.
If history is to be believed most things that are thought of to be "totally true" at one time have been proved to be totally false at another, unfortunately not in time to save the poor souls that were burned at the cross or stuffed into ovens or drawn and quartered.
Ask yourself why does it matter so much that everyone believe what you do?
Perhaps only one real goal surfaces throughout history "Control" and the resultant money and power that goes along with it.
If you wish to avoid conflict then don't look to control others thoughts or deeds and learn from the past few thousand years...everything you think is true today is likely going to be proven wrong in the future.
Respect others goals and ways and don't look to control them or make them change to suit your needs and everything will go much better in the future.
And no one needs to get nailed to anything.
This is under the Chat Zone which I have interpreted to mean that it is allowed to be having a discussion here that doesn't specifically have to do with beating on metal, but is related to the effort which I think that this discussion is most definitely related to.
The Secret to Happiness:
"I Don't Mind What Happens"