making rose info

I would like to ask if anyone can help me along with making a copper rose. My wifes b-day is in 25 days and would like to make a nice one to give her. I have a sheet of copper to work with and thought that this would be a fun nighttime project to work on (so not to bug the neighbors after the sun goes down ). I am going to use(boogiemanz1) pattern and cut out some shapes tomorrow night. I am not sure if it is to be cut out as a whole section and a hole made in the middle with the peddles bent up into the shape or each peddle cut and made into the shape. This pattern looks like it will make a rose that is more opened up. Can this pattern be used to make a more closed rose like the one in the post under (makin the rose that clay posted). I will go and get a rose to see what the peddles shape and form look like and just start trying to see what happens. Would love to have any advice from anyone that has anything to say on the subject, plus this will be my first time ever working with copper, so secureing this all together will be new to me. Any info on on working with this type of material would be very helpful too.

Thanks for anyone help
Bill

HI Bill, Before I ever saw how these were made I went a hammered one out petal by petal - and while that was goo dfor practicing - it took FOREVER. By far the best method (IHMO) is to make the petals as circular clusters and pierce a hole in the center of the cluster.

For my "stem" I formed a buldge at one end (like a nail head) - I then slid each formed segment onto the stem - I used a dab of silicon between layers - just to keep them from rattling. You could also Pre-Tin the stem and petals and just warm everything up when you're done (allowing the solder to flow together) I definitely reccomend Pre-Tinning the leaves. I made mine to slightly wrap around the stem - I then temporarily crimped them onto the stem - when the position looked good - I warmed up the solder.

Remember that the last set of petals are the most critial - adding the appropriate "shape" to those will be the biggest visual impact.

I would also anneal your copper. Copper is pretty forgiving in terms of getting it too hot - so you really can't "ruin" a piece like you can with aluminum. I've gotten then red hot (although not required) and just tossed them into a pan of water - allows you to handle them faster. I've also just used a Black Permanent marker as my "soot" and just heated them up until I burned the marker off. I don't know how this compares to the more traditional acetlyene soot method, but ithas worked good for me. I tried this out in the winter - I hate having all that soot floating in the shop if I can help it.

I like to anneal them AFTER I cut them out because the cut edges will also take that "weathered" color - otherwise they may stand out - not that you couldn't re-anneal later

You will be amazed how quick this goes - I didn't pay that close attention last time - but I would guess you could make one in an hour or two - so you've got PLENTY of time. take your time - enjoy they're actually quite easy and FUN to make - Plus the women folk usually LOVE them.



Here's a quicky I did - nothing too dramatic - but it was a BIG hit.



Good Luck and be sure to post your pictures!!



Jacin in Ohio



SOMB

[Gene_Olson]

A friend here that does iron roses recommends tapering the edges, tap with a hammer at an angle to thin the edge. it makes the edge look more real, adds a bit of variation. It does dress them up a bit.

and yes most rose patterns have three or four petals on a pattern with a hole in t he middle.

You can also make the base leaf part that goes around the bottom of the petals and solder that on,
slip the petals in place
put the stem in a vice
and a punch down the center of the rose to the top of the stem
and rivet them on.


Gene

[Boogiemanz1]

Bill, the way I did mine was to cut the patterns out, transfer to a piece of copper, Make several leaves. I anneal all the pieces by heating with a propane torch until red and toss in a bucket of water.

I took a ball pien hammer and flattened the ball a bit, then hammered on a piece of rubber I had. I pounded a cup in each petal (leave the groups of petals together), the using the edge of a board rolled the edges over backward (outward from center). Don't be so precision that you take the character out of it.

I used a piece of 1/8 copper line for a stem. I took each layer and folded the left of one petal into the right of the next on the same piece after having drilled a hole that would slide over the tubing. By folding the petals it allows you to collapse the petals together closer. Flare or solder a ball on the end of the tube, slide the set of petals with the smallest OD onto the tube first.

I apply flux and solder with a propane torch, then slide the next set on, offset the break in the petals, and solder. while soldering these, I chuck the stem in the drill press and solder the bottom of the petals. After all the petal groups are soldered and the little star piece on the bottom, then apply the leaves and you are done

Stan Lobitz taught us how to make them at MM03............john

[Dutch Comstock]

Bill, Just go to your local walmart or other large department store and they have all sorts of different artificial flowers with plastic stems and leaves.You take the flower part apart and use it for a base pattern and size it up and down to come up with different variations.Also when annealing the copper you come up with all sorts of colors due to the temp of annealing them You can play with the coloring after you have the petal cut to size by heating areas of the petal untill you get the color you want and instantly quenching the copper and the color will stay as it is when quenched. Use alot od imagination and try all sorts of different methods and you will amaze your self. Dutch

Thanks Everyone,
I made my first rose before I went back on line and saw everyone comment and sujections. If I can get more time this weekend I will start another. Some of the things make a lot more sense after reading thru this all. My first pedal layer was having a hard time staying at the end of the stem. It did fall down a bit but the pedals covered it up. Brazing it all together (if that is what I was doing) did not turn out as well as I had hoped. This was my first time at trying to do it . I had my torch still set up for when I was welding. I had gotten some copper welding rod from home depot and started out. But everything vaporized or turned to liquid and just ran all over everything turning a lot of the peddals black. I switched down to a 0 tip size and after a while I at least got it to stick. I was happy with what I did for my first one. Can't wait to keep trying on the next ones. I did get a real rose from the store and patterned it after that one. I will go and get some fake ones to use as patterns. What I used for supplies was #4 gage copper soild wire for the main stem/12 & 14 gage for the leaves stem. Not to sure what the sheet copper gage was. As far the this brazing thing, am I trying to melt the two materials together or just melt the rod and have that secure the parts to each other? With this one, I did get some colors in the copper that I liked as hot as I was trying to do it. I am sure there is a happy level that the heat needs to be that I have not found yet. I will try and get a camera this weekend and post my first attempt.
Thanks again everone,
Bill

[Dutch Comstock]

The easiest way to anneal copper is to heat it to a red heat and quench it in water.I am not sure if it needs this much heat but copper thin copper heats so fast it is easier to keep track this way. If you overheat the surface will get rough and work in as texture to what you are making.The easiest way to fasten it together is to solder it together with 50-50 solder and paste flux. You can pretin areas with flux and solder and then the part will quickly solder on when heated to attach. You can also silver solder or braze with phos copper rod or copper can also be tig welded to maintain color.It is tough to tig as it takes a lot of heat and can burn through easily.
For recoloring the copper aftern the piece is made and shaped you heat it all or part of it with the torch and when the color changes to a color you like you immediately quench to hold that color.You can do stripes and all sorts of variations by spot heating areas. Dutch

[Gene_Olson]

I was just playing with a petal sized piece and rolled the edges through edge of contact on small radius anvil. It worked real slick for making the edge look fragile. Tapered NOW, no pounding.

G.

[SecaTim]

The following is how I make copper roses. The idea in not original :wink: but the information my help someone make their mate happy :twisted: . This is not the only way just how I do it.


Here are the basic materials that I use



The patterns for petals and leaves, snips hammer, solder and flux, 16 oz. copper sheet purchased from a building supply, #4 bare copper wire used for the stem, vise, pliers, file and deburing tool. Not pictured are the torch, drill and water bucket.

First lay out your patterns and trace them onto the the copper sheet. I used a sharpie for better visual for the pictures but usually use a scribe.



I then use the snips to cut out all the shapes,drill the center hole for the stem then anneal them to a dull red and quench in water.



I then cut the edge of the leaves to give them a more real look. and use some welding wire to emboss veins in them






Tin the tip of your stem and solder on the smallest petal piece.





turn up the petals and roll into a circle to start the shape.



Solder on the next size petal piece and turn it up and roll into a circle around the first layer. Take the pliers and slightly roll the edges of the petals over to continue the shape.





Make sure to alternate the slit in the petals as you add them. Use your hammer to smooth out any sharp corners in the bottom of the petals.



Continue to add the petal pieces and form them to a pleasing shape as you go.



Pretty soon you will have a bloom that should look something like this



add the sepetal last and turn the layers down.



I vary the way I put the leaves on the stem. some get attached right to the stem others I will add a length of # 12 wire to allow the leaf to set off the stem. Vary the leaf ammount and placement to your tasts.





You will end up with a Rose. For the stem treatment you can leave it long to place in a vase



Or you can turn the bottom to allow it to free stand.



I hope this helps and enjoy.....

Tim 8)

[Boogiemanz1]

Tim your roses are coming out very well. I like to form the cluster first, then solder to the stem. Once you have the small center cluster on, I just chucked the stem in my drill press after sliding each consecutive cluster on and let it hold it while I ran the solder down the stem.

The leaf pattern is available here to print out http://www.metalmeet.com/photopost/s...225&page=1

I added some "buds" to my last one



The pictures are a bit fuzzy, but you get the idea..........john