larger width top wheel

[Welding_Engineer]

What are the problems or benefits to using an English wheel with a 3� x 8� top wheel and using 2� x 3� anvils? Will the larger width of the top wheel cause any problems?

Thanks,
Dave

[tdoty]

Actually, the wider upper wheel will help to stabilize the panel - lessening the chance of the upper leaving marks.

Tim D.

[FriarTuck]

There is no downside that I know of in combining a 3" upper and a 2" anvil. In fact you will gain stability in handling the panel because of the wider area on the upper wheel. There may be a very special application here or there that this would not apply, but in general, IMHO, this combination is probably one of the best general setups you could choose. This would allow you to handle reasonablly large panels without a helper using a "low crown" lower, without leaving track or scoring.

[Welding_Engineer]

Tim and Rick,

Thank you very much for the advice.

Thanks,
Dave

[Doug98105]

Originally Posted by Welding_Engineer

What are the problems or benefits to using an English wheel with a 3� x 8� top wheel and using 2� x 3� anvils? Will the larger width of the top wheel cause any problems?

Thanks,
Dave

If you have a narrow top wheel it's fairly easy to add "outriggers" to make it wider for panel support. The material added to widen the wheel doesn't have to be hard, it could even by hard rubber or wood since it doesn't do any forming, only provides panel support.

Dave Propst (sp) who posts once in awhile over on Metalshapers has a web site that goes into quite a bit of detail on this issue. Maybe someone knows the address of his site.

While we're on the subject of upper wheels, IMO the best choice is a large bearing. They're extremely hard, run true, and can be found at salvage yards for practically nothing. They're generally narrow, but by adding support to both sides you have the best possible upper wheel.

Doug

[Gene Newcomb]

http://www.davepropst.com/

[Welding_Engineer]

Thanks for the link to Dave Propst’s web site. A lot of very good information.

Thanks,
Dave

[FriarTuck]

Doug and Gene, the Dave Propst article is great. I'm keeping that one in the library.

[Wray Schelin]

Originally Posted by Doug98105

If you have a narrow top wheel it's fairly easy to add "outriggers" to make it wider for panel support. The material added to widen the wheel doesn't have to be hard, it could even by hard rubber or wood since it doesn't do any forming, only provides panel support.

Dave Propst (sp) who posts once in awhile over on Metalshapers has a web site that goes into quite a bit of detail on this issue. Maybe someone knows the address of his site.

While we're on the subject of upper wheels, IMO the best choice is a large bearing. They're extremely hard, run true, and can be found at salvage yards for practically nothing. They're generally narrow, but by adding support to both sides you have the best possible upper wheel.

Doug

Hi Doug,

I wrote about the benifits of a wide wheel on metalshapers ( which I co-founded) from day one in April 2000. Dave Propst phoned me a short while after he showed up on metalshapers. He asked about and I told him about my top wide wheel experience. He wrote his article on his website several years later...


As for the benifits of a top wheel made from a hard center section and plastic edges, there is more effort to make one that way than making one out of steel all the way to the edge. There is also the danger of damaging the soft edges when accidently and improperly wheeling reverse curves.

Top wheels should be made from hardenable alloy steel 3/8 wall seamless tubing and then pressed onto a cast or billet center aluminum hub. That way would be the least expensive method to make top wheels of any width. All that is needed is a source for the alloy steel seamless tubing.

[Doug98105]

Originally Posted by Wray Schelin

Hi Doug,

I wrote about the benifits of a wide wheel on metalshapers ( which I co-founded) from day one in April 2000. Dave Propst phoned me a short while after he showed up on metalshapers. He asked about and I told him about my top wide wheel experience. He wrote his article on his website several years later...


As for the benifits of a top wheel made from a hard center section and plastic edges, there is more effort to make one that way than making one out of steel all the way to the edge. There is also the danger of damaging the soft edges when accidently and improperly wheeling reverse curves.

Top wheels should be made from hardenable alloy steel 3/8 wall seamless tubing and then pressed onto a cast or billet center aluminum hub. That way would be the least expensive method to make top wheels of any width. All that is needed is a source for the alloy steel seamless tubing.

Hi Wray,

Yes, you should get credit for the wide wheel concept.

As to the effort in adding width, I disagree, it doesn't have to be a major project. Dave P complicated it, but everything he does looks like a part for the space shuttle. Starting with a narrow upper and adding width allows converting back and forth between narrow and wide.

I stand by my advice of using a large bearing. The two I have are approx 8" diameter and 1-1/2" wide, cost was 5 bucks each at the scrap yard (even buying new from a bearing house might be less than buying a $250 to $300 machined wheel). One of mine is unused salvage with very slight surface rust, the other was used. They're ultra hard, much harder than a wheel machined of pre-hardened alloy steel. They run true, within .001" total runout. I prefer a cantilever wheel mount, bearings are easy to do this way.

For the wheeling I do, the hardness of the bearing is needed. I don't do car or cycle work. My wheeling has been for garden art where I used rusty steel from the weeds behind the shop, wheeled right over the sand and grits without a thought. My lower anvils are fashioned from self aligning pillow block bearings, also extremely hard. If I needed, I could wipe my wheels clean and run aluminum with no hint of the previous sand and grit showing on the panels.

Regarding your suggestion of heat treatable seamless tubing over a core....IMO too much work and expense. Just the cost of heat treating in my area is a minimum of $75, not to mention dealing with the distortion. Then finding a steel service center who'll sell you a short section of large diameter alloy steel tube is a whole 'nother issue. This method requires far more machining capability than the average wheel builder will ever have.

Doug