Gas savers?

[Flummo]

With the price of gas and the stress caused by having a flame lit while fixing alignment etc. between welding I have been thinking about getting a gas saver. Does anybody here have experience using them, anything good to know, to avoid etc?
Also wondering about a good place to buy one. They are available here in Sweden, but at a price equal to over $400 US, and I'm not even sure if that has 25% VAT included or not... :| (Since this kind of stuff is mostly sold to the industry, prices are usually shown without VAT.) Way too expensive for basically a couple of valves.

[jlrussell4]

Ulf,

I have a gas saver. I think it's one of the best things I've purchased. I did a lot of on line searching for a decent price when I purchased mine. I don't remember where I got it as I purchase welding supplys on line when I can't get them locally and always search several suppliers as their prices seem to change a lot. Sometimes E Bay has new ones reasonably priced.

http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=43&pictureid=3445

note that I also have a set of light weight hoses installed. Much easier to control the torch with these as they are very flexable.

[Dawai]

Materiels. can be scavenged..
foot pedal/switch, Two solenoids, a timer, base, ignition transformer and you can have a instant on instant off. (see under free tools, the propane jet is half of it)

I rarely gas weld anymore, thou with eye problems I find it easier. If anyone needs help laying out how one should work I'd be happy to talk them through it. Also, the local gas supply tried to rip me a new one.. I am down to small carry-around tanks and seem to have to fill them every ten minutes.

[kit]

I have done very little gas welding and never had my own set of bottles, my understanding is that the sequence you turn the bottles on and off is all important to avoid flash backs so you how do these work?

[jlrussell4]

Hi Kit,

I don't know if one gas shuts off before the other or not. If it does it happens in very close sequence. The acetylene still flows from the tip on the left in the picture. It is lit and is used to re-light the torch when one resumes using the torch. You can see the adjusting knob in the picture.

[Rick (madera)]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/250959815865?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649#ht_4113wt_754

here is a link to one on Ebay
even with the 25% tax you are under $200 USD

[oldgoaly]

Ulf,
Have one like the one in Rick's post it does save gas, are you using 2 stage regulators on your tanks? If you run single stage (I do) your setting on your henrob/dillon/cobra will be saved but when you go to relight, it will pop then settle down as the regulators do there job. For tacking I just hang it (the torch) nearby. Many times I'm interrupted while welding, I hang it on the gas saver, also the one I have has an adjustment on the pilot, set it for a low flame, like a small candle. tt

[kit]

[QUOTEjlrussell4;93583]I don't know if one gas shuts off before the other or not. QUOTE]

Does anyone know exactly how these work?

[red baron]

This is the first time I've heard of these, what exactly is it, and what does it do? Doesn't help that I'm still pretty green with all of this.

[jlrussell4]

Hi Mike,

A gas saver is a shut off valve with a pilot light that goes in the gas lines before the torch. When you are welding and need to pause you can hang your torch on the shut off lever and it shuts off the gases to the torch. When you resume welding you pick up the torch, gas starts to flow and you use the pilot light to light the torch. No need to reset the torch as you never touch the adjustment between uses.

[kenc]

I have one and use it all the time. My only complaint is that when you pick the torch up again, more often than not, the flame has jumped off the tip.

I've learned that a shake or two of the wrist will get the flame back where it needs to be most times, but it is a hassle.

[jlrussell4]

Ulf,

check this: http://store.weldingdepot.com/cgi/weldingdepot/GS-150.html?id=yooc4egj

I don't know what importing it would cost, but the price here is good.

[Flummo]

Alot more response than I expected, thanks for all replies!

This is the first time I've heard of these, what exactly is it, and what does it do? Doesn't help that I'm still pretty green with all of this.

Basically, when you hang the torch on the hook the gas is turned off and the flame goes out. When you take it off the hook gas turns back on and you simply light it on the small pilot flame on your gas saver that has been burning all the time (not all gas savers have pilot lights I think).

The big reasons I want one is that it saves time when you make a weld, turn off the flame, spend some time lining up more pieces or something like that, light the torch, adjust the correct flame, make another small weld, turn off again, and repeat... Alternatively you could leave the flame on all the time, burning expensive gas and being a fire hazard.
With a gas saver you hang the torch on the hook, do whatever other work you need to do, pick up the torch and it is ready to go when you've lit it.

I have a gas saver. I think it's one of the best things I've purchased. I did a lot of on line searching for a decent price when I purchased mine. I don't remember where I got it as I purchase welding supplys on line when I can't get them locally and always search several suppliers as their prices seem to change a lot. Sometimes E Bay has new ones reasonably priced.

note that I also have a set of light weight hoses installed. Much easier to control the torch with these as they are very flexable.
Good to know people like them, means they have to be good. ;) I am planning on putting the hoses I have now between regulators and the gas saver, and get some lighter hose to put between saver and torch. Today I usually twist the hoses one turn around my arm (hanging down from the elbow) any time I'll be holding the torch for long so the weight doesn't pull on the torch, lighter hoses should make a big diffrence.

Materiels. can be scavenged..
foot pedal/switch, Two solenoids, a timer, base, ignition transformer and you can have a instant on instant off. (see under free tools, the propane jet is half of it)
No doubt you could make something yourself, but I think there might be an issue with the insurance if there ever was a fire. Maybe not a big risk, but potentially a very expensive one.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/250959815865...#ht_4113wt_754 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/250959815865?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649#ht_4113wt_754)
here is a link to one on Ebay
even with the 25% tax you are under $200 USD
Thankyou. I'll likely buy from Ebay US, unless I find a good seller within the european union - don't have to pay customs and swedish VAT on stuff from within EU.

...are you using 2 stage regulators on your tanks?...
I'm not sure. I've bought them used without any manual so I don't know much more than it says "AGA Jetcontrol 500" on them and they look like this: http://medium.tradera.com/807/137055807_1.jpg
Around here AGA is by far the biggest brand on this kind of things, and they do cost quite alot.

Edit: I take too long to write, got another couple of replies...
Ulf,

check this: http://store.weldingdepot.com/cgi/weldingdepot/GS-150.html?id=yooc4egj (http://store.weldingdepot.com/cgi/weldingdepot/GS-150.html?id=yooc4egj)

I don't know what importing it would cost, but the price here is good.
Very good price. Even with shipping, customs fee and swedish VAT I could get two and have money to spare. With some luck customs misses it so VAT and fees might be avoided, less then a third of the swedish price then.

[AndersK]

Import cost from US to Sweden would be cost + freight + 6% customs fee + 25% VAT
Looks like it would fit a 40 USD flat rate box. Then add another 15 USD for the carrier to clear it thru customs.
If send as a "gift" just add freight.

[Hotrod1932]

I have a gas saver for my rig too but the problem I have found with it is that since I have mine mounted on a bench I always seem to be using the torch somewhere away from the bench. So to use it I'm always tracking back and forth, so I usually just end up shutting off the torch.

Thing like Jim says has a pilot light that stays lit, and the gas/oxy cut off works like the tank float in a toilet or water closet. Set the torch down on the holder it shuts off the gas/oxy flow to the torch, and leaves the pilot light burning. Lift up the torch and you light it back on the pilot without having to reset the oxy and ace valves. Works great it your working close to where you have the gas saver.

It does however require 2 sets of hoses, one set from the tanks to the gas saver, and then a second set from the gas saver to the torch.

[Dawai]

Lemme see...
No doubt you could make something yourself, but I think there might be an issue with the insurance if there ever was a fire. Maybe not a big risk, but potentially a very expensive one.


Yes, using certified WOG (water, oil, gas) rated solenoids would be safe.
Sweden? isn't that the country where the guy strapped jet engines to his boots and flew after jumping out of a balloon? Where's your adventurous self?

But NOTE! anything used for oxygen service must be hospital clean inside, I used to have to swab piping with acetone swabs and seal them off after drying them out with purified air. Any cutting oil, any combustible, oxygen lowers the "combustion" (see correction) temperature where it can spontaneous combust.. that goes for regulators, torches, solenoids, tubing, lines.. OK??? so.. yes.. be careful to copy anything a "hillbilly" does.. unless you have been where the hillbilly has reading and doing.. Just remember that the next time you visit a relative with a oxy bottle getting a breath..

edit for correction:what I meant to say is that oxygen lowers the ignition temperature... this communication error is why I do not attempt to teach.

Mowing the grass, walking down the road, building a machine, modifying a welder can be lethal. If you are too paranoid thou, the tin foil hat draws attention from skeptics..

[no999gr]

I have one and use it all the time. My only complaint is that when you pick the torch up again, more often than not, the flame has jumped off the tip.

I've learned that a shake or two of the wrist will get the flame back where it needs to be most times, but it is a hassle.



Bigger tip, less pressure may be what you need.

[Pete's Metalshaping]

Just out of curiosity, what if you were to buy a used one from someone. Do you still have to pay all of the taxes?

[anders nørgaard]

Just out of curiosity, what if you were to buy a used one from someone. Do you still have to pay all of the taxes?

Larry,
That's how it would work in Denmark :(


Import cost from US to Sweden would be cost + freight + 6% customs fee + 25% VAT
Looks like it would fit a 40 USD flat rate box. Then add another 15 USD for the carrier to clear it thru customs.
If sent as a "gift" just add freight.


That's not the way it works in Denmark! I've had to pay taxes every time Ray sent Viking Helmets/baseball caps. The same thing happened when Timothy gave me a bead roller :(... it's called legal hiway robbery:mad:

[kfs]

Larry,
That's how it would work in Denmark :(



That's not the way it works in Denmark! I've had to pay taxes every time Ray sent Viking Helmets/baseball caps. The same thing happened when Timothy gave me a bead roller :(... it's called legal hiway robbery:mad:


Dont you have a ''VAT fre limit'' in Denmark and Sweden ?

In Norway we hav to pay 25% VAT on goods if over 201nkr in value, we have to pay for al of it if under 200nkr no tax
gift are no tax, but tax ofice are cheking bank akount, so if money have been payed for your ''gift'' they wil get you :cry:

[Dawai]

it's called legal hiway robbery

Same thing occurred when I sent a buddy in Canada some diodes for a welder.
They robbed him, he was "old" and thought I had charged him for them. When in fact it was the Canadian import fees. He's still mad at me and does not, will not listen.

How to get around that? you can check the gift box on the shipping manifest. OR sometimes send it by another carrier other than mail.

EBAY, direct sales from China.. they "say" they are in USA on the ebay ad, but the postage says it came from "Over there". Just a matter of time before I get bit there.

[Hairy-Neil]

No doubt you could make something yourself, but I think there might be an issue with the insurance if there ever was a fire. Maybe not a big risk, but potentially a very expensive one.

A shop I once worked in had a home made pilot light. It consisted of a used paint can with a small hole in the lid, through which was drawn a six inch length of fine string, 1/4 inch protruding through the top. The can was filled with fuel oil, diesel in our case as this was a bus garage. You simply lit the wick and it burned merrily all day.

However, one day there was an almighty bang and the can flew 20 yards down the shop. I guess the heat of the flame had vapourised the fuel and made an explosive mixture in the can, which that same heat then ignited.

Larry,
That's how it would work in Denmark :(



That's not the way it works in Denmark! I've had to pay taxes every time Ray sent Viking Helmets/baseball caps. The same thing happened when Timothy gave me a bead roller :(... it's called legal hiway robbery:mad:



A father walks into a restaurant with his young son. He gives the young boy three coins to play with to keep him occupied. Suddenly, the boy starts choking and going blue in the face. The father realises the boy has swallowed the coins and starts slapping him on the back. The boy coughs up 2 of the coins but is still choking. Looking at his son, the father is panicking and shouting for help.

A well dressed, attractive and serious looking woman, in a blue business suit, is sitting at a coffee bar reading a newspaper and sipping a cup of coffee. At the sound of the commotion, she looks up, puts her coffee cup down, neatly folds the newspaper, places it on the counter, gets up from her seat and makes her way, unhurriedly, across the restaurant.

Reaching the boy, the woman carefully pulls down his pants, takes hold of the boy's' testicles and starts to squeeze and twist, gently at first and then ever so firmly, tighter and tighter. After a few seconds the boy convulses violently and coughs up the last of the coinss, which the woman deftly catches in her free hand. Releasing the boy's testicles, the woman walks back to her seat at the coffee bar without saying a word.

As soon as he is sure that his son has suffered no ill effects the father rushes over to the woman and starts thanking her, saying, "I've never seen anybody do anything like that before, it was fantastic. Are you a doctor?"

"No," the woman replied, "I'm with the Inland Revenue." ;)

[Dawai]

Hairy.. you crack me up.. In that can... It reached the ignition temperature. NOW.. diesel, kerosene.. once it reaches a temperature it is as explosive as gasoline. Old farmers used to wrap a copper line around the exhaust on the farm tractors, heat kerosene and then run it through the carburetor on the tractor.. as long as it was heated, it'd burn well.. it'd have to be cranked on gasoline then switched over. "A forklift will run on paint thinner too, but I am too embarrassed to tell about that".

I think the note made earlier on "torch gas savers" was "about anything you can make" is not as compact, pretty, safe, or reliable as a proven engineered design. (some people wonder why I have lived this long??)

Insurance? sometimes here they cancel if you have a "ladder" on the property, much less any torches or any other shop equipment. They are always looking for a reason to "keep your money" and not pay out a dime in losses. It is impossible here to buy "shop insurance" for a private owned and operated shop, thou I do have the buildings insured.

IMPORT FEES?? are you allowed to bring things in your suitcase home? If so, next person coming over "heah" should pack the suitcase right up to the declaration point.. it was cheaper for a buddy to ride down here and buy the computer control off my tubing bender than to have it shipped in, he had a weeks vacation too, eating biscuits and cornbread.

[kit]

Thing like Jim says has a pilot light that stays lit, and the gas/oxy cut off works like the tank float in a toilet or water closet. Set the torch down on the holder it shuts off the gas/oxy flow to the torch, and leaves the pilot light burning. Lift up the torch and you light it back on the pilot without having to reset the oxy and ace valves. Works great it your working close to where you have the gas saver.

Yes I get that, but surely that acts like opening and shutting both lines together which you aren't supposed to do?
Ok on the one's with a pilot light maybe the acetylene line stays open, but that logic doesn't stack up on the spark ignition none pilot light models.

[kit]

How come my quotes aren't formating in a box anymore?
Is it my lack of knowledge on Swedish taxation issues:lol:

[oldgoaly]

off to the right in the pic is a small roll around stand, my gas saver is clamped on to it. long hoses between tanks and gas saver, shorter set hoses between g/s and torch. Makes it rather easily moved with out moving the heavy tanks.
11240

[route56wingnut]

I made a youtube video showing my treadle torch made with one of these gas savers . I also use it for its original intent . As you can see I have quick conect fittings on all my torches so changeover is very simple . I made the mount for the treadle so that it is pinned and can easily be placed on my torch cart handle .

I just replace the shutoff rod from the treadle to the normal one for hanging your torch .I can also use my small Smith mini hoses for Jewelers torch that also has the quick fittings

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5ZvGw9lzmc&feature=g-hist&context=G250d22fAHTzciFgAAAA

[Dawai]

Not too keen on the quick connects, I've had a fist full of fire before and didn't like it.

Neato on the foot pedal thou, better than my propane jet.. you can take a section of insulated stove pipe and have a "tunnel forge"..

[jlrussell4]

Hi Kit,

You asked if the gas saver shut both lines down together. I had my torch and therfore, gas saver out today and checked to see. I usually set the torch down quickly so it seems they go off together. If I slowly close the gas saver valve it definately shuts the oxygen off first.

So now we all know :).

[kit]

Thankyou very much Jim, logic dictated it must, now the hard one, does it open the act' first?

[route56wingnut]

Thankyou very much Jim, logic dictated it must, now the hard one, does it open the act' first?

I dont see that it matters as the air/fuel ratio is already mixed as you wave it over the pilot light . I see on mine that you can adjust the settings .Dan

[kit]

I will just restate that I don't know much about gas welding and am trying to learn.
They seem a usefull idea but what I am trying to get clear in my head is whether these things are completely safe, it is the concept of flash backs to the tanks I'm struggling with not combustion mix at the torch, Ok you are going to use flash back arrestors, but aren't you still suposed to go one and off with the acetelene first?
What is it I'm missunderstanding, is it that both lines maintain pressure up to the devise that makes it OK for them to turn the suply off and on again outside the acetelene first mode?

[jlrussell4]

Hi Kit,


but aren't you still suposed to go one and off with the acetelene first?



I could be wrong, but I always thought it was oxygen off first. To be honest with you I have seen it done both ways with no ill effect. Please note that I am not recommending that you turn the gases on and off improperly.

The gas savers have been used for a long time. I think they are a safe item, although I did burn the sleeve of my shirt on the pilot light of one of these once :eek:.

[anders nørgaard]

Acetylene off first!! That is the flamable gas of the two. Further more the floating oxygen will ensure the acetylene being "drained" from the welding tip so that the flame can't enter the tip.

(Hope this made sense!)

[dmc1]

Acetylene off first!! That is the flamable gas of the two. Further more the floating oxygen will ensure the acetylene being "drained" from the welding tip so that the flame can't enter the tip.

(Hope this made sense!)


When I turn the acetylene off first, I always get a sharp pop. I think this is because the reduced gas velocity at the tip has allowed the flame to enter the torch and the remaining gas mixture in there burns explosively.

If the oxygen is turned off first, the flame continues to burn quietly, just as when lighting up, until the acetylene is turned off.

Dave Cameron

[jlrussell4]

Here is a nice video by Harris. Shut off oxygen first.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OReUnBkmdYo

[Flummo]

I believe the instructions to diffrent torches say diffrent shut off procedures.

[Babych44]

http://www.amazon.com/Gentec-Gas-Saver-for-Acetylene-100qf-y/dp/B0058EDQN6/ref=sr_1_11?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1362305197&sr=1-11&keywords=gas+saver

Why this type of gas saver says that "Not for use with Small Torches" ? :o
www.weldingdepot.com sit is down now, there was a cheap one too

[jlrussell4]

Why this type of gas saver says that "Not for use with Small Torches

My guess would be that the hose ends on the small torches are smaller than the coupling nuts are on the larger torch sets.

[strungaru]

A cheap one in U.K. http://www.migtigarc.co.uk/Gas_Welding/gas_welding.html
CONSTANTIN