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bherman
11-03-2011, 09:43 PM
Hi All, Haven't posted in a long time! I bought a 66 Plymouth to play with and of course things got out of control. Here's the pics of the rear suspension. Thanks Brian.


http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=430&pictureid=5941




http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=430&pictureid=5947



http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=430&pictureid=5942



http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=430&pictureid=5945


http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=430&pictureid=5946

anders nørgaard
11-03-2011, 11:03 PM
NICE to see you back here Buddy!!! :)
I wondered where and how you've been for the last couple of years.

WOW!! Now you've made metal art again :D http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif

Randy Ferguson
11-04-2011, 12:07 AM
Brian,

Wouldn't expect anything less!! How's the '37? Chevy chassis progressing? Any new info?

jlrussell4
11-04-2011, 04:25 AM
WOW ! That sure gives the rest of us something to shot for. Great attention to detail.

It's good to see you posting again Brian.

Carbuilder
11-04-2011, 08:38 AM
That is one over the top set up hope to see pictures of it in the car.

MetalMangler
11-04-2011, 08:58 AM
Did you make that whole setup or buy it? No offense im just really curious.
It looks like it has a 9 inch housing but its gusseted and somwhat of a hybrid?
Im jealous either way lol, all i have is a regualr 9 inch setup on mine.
Feel free to correct me, im not very good with these kind of rearends.

Matt

Flummo
11-04-2011, 12:23 PM
Very nice assembly... however, I have been told (by people inspecting modified and home built cars for approval to road use here in Sweden) that 4-link suspensions need rubber bushings or something else that "yields" a little as the axle moves around. It looks like both ends of all four links (correct name?) have solid joints that will turn freely, but not stretch/compress at all.

ESjaavik
11-04-2011, 01:20 PM
Straight bushings will bind if not in rubber.
But those Heim joints will not.

They may not be OK with the authorities here for road use as the brackets in the body/chassis will take a beating. So cracks may form in or around the brackets. That may not be of great concern for a car that see little use and where the areas in danger are not covered with underbody wax or similar. On a clean chassis/body any cracks can be found at an early stage.

If I had a car with these parts on it I would have to replace the tiles in my garage with mirrors. It cannot possibly be done better! :o

Now I just have to pick up my jaw from the floor.

ShawnMarsh
11-04-2011, 02:21 PM
All suspension systems I have used/installed/made have used grim joints with no I'll effects.

That is definitely a beautiful setup, thanks for sharing.

MetalMangler
11-05-2011, 08:31 AM
I believe and correct me if i am wrong here but the heim joints are all setup in such a way as to allow for movement in every direction as well as the joints themselves rotate in every direction.
I do alot of 4wheel drive stuff and they are used on alot of rock crawlers and hi performance offroad vehicles as well and those put out alot of pwer and do all sorts of crazy stuff.
Heims are just as flexible as rubber bushings but infinitly stronger and without the give of rubber and you dont get the breakage or tearing you would with rubber.

Matt

bherman
11-05-2011, 08:56 AM
Hi Guys, thanks for the nice comments.

Anders, I've discovered that being retired with a part time job doesn't work quite the way I thought it was going to.

Randy, I've been pushing my friend Ralph to get back on the 37 Chevy. The economy was hard on him and he rediscovered women! I think there's light at the end of the tunnel.

Jim, thanks, we try.

Danny, been watching your "work in the shop" post, I've learned a lot, love the 48 COE.

Matt, the housing and all of the parts are fabricated from scratch. The pig is a 8 3/4" Chrysler, the only purchase parts are the calipers, axles, shocks, heim joints and the pig.

Ulf, This is a pretty standard set-up for a drag race style vehicle. it will see very little mileage.

Einar, Your point about the possibilty of cracking at the link attachment locations is very valid. Over the years we have just made the attachment points robust enough to move the wear location to the rod end. In my experience the rod ends will live for 3500 miles of careful street use before needing replacement, a lifetime in a car that likely will get less than great fuel economy. The vehicle hasn't moved off the hoist in the first three years I've owned it. The heim joints show no wear as of yet!

Shawn, Thanks I agree.

anders nørgaard
11-05-2011, 08:58 AM
I believe and correct me if i am wrong here but the heim joints are all setup in such a way as to allow for movement in every direction as well as the joints themselves rotate in every direction.
I do alot of 4wheel drive stuff and they are used on alot of rock crawlers and hi performance offroad vehicles as well and those put out alot of pwer and do all sorts of crazy stuff.
Heims are just as flexible as rubber bushings but infinitly stronger and without the give of rubber and you dont get the breakage or tearing you would with rubber.

Matt

You're right Matt:)

The Heim joints/Aircraft Rod Ends ensures more precise travel of the axle than does rubber bushings. Further more the four longitudinal struts (providing they are set up right) prevents the Pinion? from running out of parallel from the drive shaft. ;)

If any of you would like to learn more about suspensions, read here:
http://www.popularhotrodding.com/tech/0604_rear_suspension_guide/viewall.html

Bill Gibson
11-05-2011, 09:28 AM
Betutiful work Brian! Interesting design on the Panhard bar..!!!
When the Buck or the Jig looks as much like a piece of art as the components of the project....That is the mark of a true Craftsman..... I will never be there.....

dauer
11-06-2011, 08:53 PM
Hi Brian,

I've been craving some of your posts of unbelievable metal eye candy...it's been a long time and again you never disappoint!! That is some gorgeous work thanks for sharing! One question do you model the parts you fabricate to check clearances and range of motion before you build them?

Dave

bherman
11-12-2011, 08:33 AM
Hi guy's

Bill, the panhard link set-up is a little different, but I have seen similar style units on cars that performed well. On a lot of drag style chassis the panhard link is above the "pumpkin" on the top of the axle housing. That makes the roll center very high and I chose the bent panhard for good packaging and a slightly lower roll center. The bent bar is not nearly as rigid as a straight unit, but in this application I simply increased the bar size to 1 1/2 X.125 wall tube. The top link is probably overkill, but I didn't want the bar to flop against the rod ends.

Dave, I model just about everything in CAD. I've found that it helps with just about every facet of construction. The newer program's allow for motion studies and can help remove a lot of the surprizes from the project. When you're as lazy as I am you try to make parts that work the first time, because you know you may never get the ambition to make them again!

Bill Gibson
11-12-2011, 08:01 PM
I figured out what you were thinking when I saw the picture, but I don't know that I would have thought of doing it that way.
It's a very clever set up. I just accepted the High Roll Center on the ones I did, figureing that they would never be driven hard enough for it to be noticed anyway. Cars like Anglias and Gremlins and the Triumph Mayflower that I built chassis for, all had the short back end with the tires close to the corners....I put the Panhard bar over the top or in front of the third member. If I could do them over, I would do it the way you did. Then a lighter sway bar could be used, so I don't think the extra weight of the heavier Panhard bar would be an issue......I like it...!!!!!!!

shawnspeed
12-12-2011, 05:02 PM
Hey , Brian , Did Bob ever get his mustang done???And happy holidays:carols: from Sadler & I over here in GM land...Shawn

Overkill
12-12-2011, 06:50 PM
I have rubber on mine, and I'll tell you why. If you plot the movement radii of the end of the bar, the upper and lower travel on different paths. With the rubber, there's a little bit of give, with the heim there is no give.

Heim's are not meant to travel in all directions. People have used them in the steering components on the front of cars, where the heim is subjected to sideways motion and binding as the suspension moves up and down, resulting in failures.

The National Street Rod Association recently had an article on the subject in their magazine, and you might be able to find more information on their website.