Brass Radiator shells.

[mindover]

I posted these on here some time ago but the thread was lost in the crash. I hope its not too boring to put them back on. I know many will have seen them but here goes...

I started making these SS100 shells for a guy I worked for called Terry Rowing. Terry is a very clever guy and talented engineer. I was working for his company called trac engineering (Terry Rowing automotive components) Terry was restoring a genuine SS100 and had decided it would be a good idea to build some replicas. (at the time the genuine cars were fetching big money) He built several chassis and bought in bodies before I started to work for him. I made several sets of wings for him and clad a few bodies. Terry asked me if I could make the Radiator shells, I said I would give it a go. The replicas used the correct type of engine and suspension and was pretty much indistinguishable from the original. For those who don't know the SS100 was built in the mid thirties by SS cars (Swallow Sidecars) After the war because of the SS connotations the company was re-named Jaguar.

Terry went on to develop a kit car which would have a 'glass body and box section chassis but would use many of the same parts used to restore originals and build the replicas, like bonnets (hoods) windscreen frame and of course the Radiator shell. This car uses Jaguar XJ6 engine and suspension. This was eventually bought from Terry and is now sold as the Suffolk Sport 100 (SS100)

I have made more than two hundred of these shells. Some have been used on original cars, some on the replicas but most have gone on the kit car.

Below is the first of the Kit cars built with the first radiator shell. This photo was taken recently but the car was built about twenty three years ago.

http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=101&pictureid=4330

http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=101&pictureid=4333

Twenty odd years on and I am still making the shells. Below is a photo of one that I made recently. I will post photos of the jig and the process I use to make them soon along with some other shells I have made over the years.

http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=101&pictureid=4331

http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=101&pictureid=4332

I give them a light polishing so that I can be sure I have got all the blemishes out of them but they are not intended to be fully polished. Once I get the shells to this stage they are sent for chrome plating.


David

[jlrussell4]

Hi David,

Thanks for reposting. I could look at those over and over.

[Rick (madera)]

I never get tired seeing those Rad Shells:D

[3 Chiefs]

I don't think your work will ever bore any of us here. thanks for posting those pictures.
Paul

[rokcrln]

Yes please show as much as you can on this process as I need to build some 1-off shells for a car I am designing and I am sure I can use some pointers from a 23yr veteran! Very nice looking work. Thank you for sharing with us.

Kevin
LFD Inc.

[DYCE]

This is what I've been waiting for. You've been teasing us long enough:D... The shells you've posted pictures of are amazing. The way you do it with hand tools is just as amazing. Can't wait David!!!

[Carbuilder]

David yes please post as much detail info as possible I have to make a 1916 Ames rad shell thank you.

[mindover]

Thank you all very much.

Here is a better photo of the kit car version of the car. This one as I have said was made twenty odd years ago but they are still being made and sold today- http://www.suffolkjaguar.com/

http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=101&pictureid=4343

Roger Williams is the guy who bought the company from my old boss Terry.

David

[mindover]

I made this jig by copying an original radiator shell. As a I said I have made more than 200 shells on this so it is a bit worse for wear. It is fairly simple but it gives me all the information I need.

http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=101&pictureid=4344

I make the shells from six pieces. Below is the blanks for a shell laid out in their correct position.

http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=101&pictureid=4345

David

[Guten i Norge]

What to say if not..... just amazing .... admiring.... it's more then "just" nice...

Ørvar

[Carbuilder]

David for the jig / buck the upper or front part is that tubing or solid round bar material. The up coming Ames grills I have to make have rounded front edges like your SS units. any chance of a couple of close up different angles of it thanks.

[mindover]

Thank you Ørvar.


Danny the jig is made from solid bar, it is easier to bend than tube and more solid to work on. The profiles are cut from steel sheet. I will put up some more photos when I get some time.

David

[mindover]

The sides are wheeled lightly to put in a slight curve. The top of each side has to be curved- I do this by hollowing and then blending the shape into the side. I form this area over a stake (post dolly)

Top of side hollowed...

http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=101&pictureid=4346

and blended into the side...

http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=101&pictureid=4347


David

[Carbuilder]

David in the bottom picture the front edge appears to be rolled & very smooth no slap or hammer marks, did you use a bead roller / jenny for that or some other way thank you.

[mindover]

Danny I formed the front edge over the jig. There are no hammer marks because there is no need to hit it hard against the jig just dress off dolly (or off jig)

David

[Carbuilder]

Thank you.

[mindover]

Danny I have sent you a PM.

[mindover]

The next part to be shaped is the top sections. The top I do in two halves as shown in previous photos. Each part has a lot of shape in it at the front. I hollow the blank to shape I can be pretty robust with it because I know the shape well. and can judge what is needed fairly well...

http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=101&pictureid=4528

A bit of dressing onto the stake and a little blocking onto a piece of ply smooths most of the lumps.

http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=101&pictureid=4529



David

[mindover]

This photo (below) shows me planishing the piece, most of this is done over a stake using a flipper. (slapper) There is too much shape in the front area for wheeling.

http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=101&pictureid=4531

In this photo the section is more or less the correct shape. Brass is fairly soft and planishes quite quickly. it takes me about twenty minutes to shape one of these sections if I get it right first time.

http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=101&pictureid=4530

David

[Carbuilder]

David great info so far thank you very much.

[Hotrod1932]

David your work is just simply art! I think you should grab Neil and the 2 of you come over to the Viking! It will be a shame to be so close and not get to meet you!

And after all there will be home made cake ( rumor is strawberry ), very reasonable lodging thanks to Anders, a car show, some of Europe's best metal men, and COFFEE (how ever I can attest that tea is available ):rolleyes:

[Metalman Sweden]

I just sit back and see your work with a big smile on my lips, wounderful :D

Do as Ray says, take a trip to Denmark in june, it would be nice to meet you!

// Per

[mindover]

Thanks Guys I would like to come - I am so busy at the moment and way behind with my work. I am also getting started on a car I have wanted to build for myself for more than 30 years, (a little 27 on a 32 chassis, flathead powered) I want this done for this time next year for my youngest daughters prom. I will think about it and see if I can get there.

David

[anders nørgaard]

Thanks Guys I would like to come - I am so busy at the moment and way behind with my work. I am also getting started on a car I have wanted to build for myself for more than 30 years, (a little 27 on a 32 chassis, flathead powered) I want this done for this time next year for my youngest daughters prom. I will think about it and see if I can get there.

David

Would have been great if you could come over, David! You'd be very welcome! :) :) :)

'27 on a '32 chassis... tell us more about it. Sounds interesting :cool:

[mindover]

Hi Anders, the 27 on 32 chassis will be a new body made by me. All the bodies I have seen are so rotten that it is no more work to make a new one than to repair a rotten original.

I am buying this http://youtu.be/q7G7c_EEBgE as a donor car. The flathead is very hot. It has a top loader box and all the other parts I need.


David

[mindover]

I realised that I had started to rebuild this thread and then forgot all about it so back to it.


Once planished by hand it looks like this...

http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=101&pictureid=8090

The parts are than trimmed to fit each other on the jig and clamped in place tack welded and final welded using gas welding...

http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=101&pictureid=8088

I make sure I have a reasonable amount of build on the welds so any small pin holes are in the build which will be ground off later.

Pin holes can occurs because brass is made from zinc and copper the zinc has a lower melting temperature than brass so can evaporate causing pin holes. I use a carbonizing flame to prevent this.

David

[mindover]

I grind and partially dress each weld before welding the next section in place, this allows me to make the part more accurately. The photo below shows all the sections made and in place on the jig.

http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=101&pictureid=8107

David

[mindover]

Each weld is smoothed off and dressed out. any lumps on the inside will transfer to the outside as the part is being planished.

http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=101&pictureid=8109


David

[kenc]

for my youngest daughters prom..

David


They have proms in England now? :eek:

Things have changed in the thirty years I've been away!

[mindover]

Ha ha! yes its a big thing! has been for quite a while, its becoming more and more Americanised here! They cost a small fortune as well, dresses, shoes, bags, cars it all adds up but my oldest daughter looked so beautiful on hers it was worth it. The youngest is about to have hers and is going to look every bit a lovely as her sister did. She will now be going in my friends flathead powered '32 hot rod 'cos I will not get mine done in time. too much other work. At least I dont have to pay for a limo this time!.

Some people turn up in helicopters! and with celebrities to escort them - mad!


David

[jlrussell4]

I love those radiator shells. They are works of art.

[anders nørgaard]

I love those radiator shells. They are works of art.


So do I! http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif and David... now that you realized you're not going to get the '27 done in time anyway... how about coming over to the Viking? :p :D ;)

[Hotrod1932]

David you really should consider the Viking Meet! You can think of it as your prom;)

BTW you think prom's are expensive wait till its time for weddings!!! :lol:

[mindover]

David you really should consider the Viking Meet! You can think of it as your prom;)

BTW you think prom's are expensive wait till its time for weddings!!! :lol:

I would like to go at some point but I am behind with work because I have made a set of bucks for SS100 wings which took me a lot of time and put me further behind. I wanted the bucks absolutely right because all the wings that are made now are wrong. I had an original car with original wings which I felt I would never get again so had to bite the bullet and make the bucks at my own expense.

That's why my daughters are going to university! they will be able to pay for their own!.

David

[Hotrod1932]

That's why my daughters are going to university! they will be able to pay for their own!.

Good luck with that DAD!!! ;)

[mindover]

Here is an original shell sitting next to one I have almost finished with the insert in place, just a few more details to finish...

http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=101&pictureid=8131

To get it top this stage lots of dressing out and filing is needed this is all done by hand using hand tools.

David

[kenc]

its becoming more and more Americanised here!


David

David,

If it's really becoming Americanized, then you need to get used to spelling Americanised Americanized.

Clear? :D

[Dick]

David
there were several bucks used in the making of the SS100 wing's (at minimum 3) and they were not all the same. Somewhere in our archives the CJA has picts from the 60's of several 100's lined up showing some of the variations. David Barber had one set of the originals, sold at auction a few years ago from his estate. i agree most of the new ones being made today are not correct.

[anders nørgaard]

Here is an original shell sitting next to one I have almost finished with the insert in place, just a few more details to finish...

http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=101&pictureid=8131

To get it top this stage lots of dressing out and filing is needed this is all done by hand using hand tools.

David

WOW!!!!! :eek: :eek: :eek: I'm speachless!!! http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif

[mindover]

David
there were several bucks used in the making of the SS100 wing's (at minimum 3) and they were not all the same. Somewhere in our archives the CJA has picts from the 60's of several 100's lined up showing some of the variations. David Barber had one set of the originals, sold at auction a few years ago from his estate. i agree most of the new ones being made today are not correct.

Dick I was making wings back then on someone elses bucks I wanted to buy the bucks David Barber had used, the wings he had made were done by Bob Ford, I spoke to Bob and Davids widow but the price was way out of my range.

I am not sure I agree that there were any real differenced in the wings made originally, I have studied every photo of original cars that I could ever find and I have seen several sets of original wings in the twenty five years I have been working on these cars. By the sixties these cars were thirty years old many of the cars would have had accident repairs and corrosion repairs which often were not done too well (which I find on the original wings). In all the photos I have ever managed to find of wings at the time of manufacture they all look the same.

David

[mindover]

David,

If it's really becoming Americanized, then you need to get used to spelling Americanised Americanized.

Clear? :D

I can't even spell in English English!

David

[kenc]

Someone made me laugh the other day, he said:

"You gotta love the English, they name their country after our language"

:D

[mindover]

hmm!

Here are three shells at three stages...

http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=101&pictureid=8132

and a bit further on...

http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=101&pictureid=8133

David

[dmc1]

David,

How would you compare the difficulty of making these in brass to making them in steel?

Dave Cameron

[larry mullen]

David
How much tme does it take to make a radiator shell?
Larry mullen

[mindover]

David,

How would you compare the difficulty of making these in brass to making them in steel?

Dave Cameron

Dave, Making them in steel would be easier in some ways - less problems with the welding for a start. Brass is better at taking chrome and forms fairly easily.

David

[mindover]

David
How much tme does it take to make a radiator shell?
Larry mullen

Hi Larry, I used to be able to make one in about 24 hours of work but I have had a lot of problems with the welding because they stopped making the rods I have used for the last twenty odd years because of heath and safety. I have been experimenting for the last year or so and I think I have solved the problem.

David

[marioD]

David

is that fluxfilled rods you're using?

Mario

[larry mullen]

David
Radiater shells look near perfect .
What thickness brass sheet do you use ?
larry mullen

[mindover]

David

is that fluxfilled rods you're using?

Mario

I was, 'till they changed them.

David

[mindover]

David
Radiater shells look near perfect .
What thickness brass sheet do you use ?
larry mullen

Larry I use 18g, which is a lot thicker than the original shells but it allows me to file the part and the polisher enough metal to polish the shell without problems. The originals were pressed. The finish has to be as near perfect as I can get it because they are chrome plated and of course you can't use any filler. I try to get all the metalwork I do to as close to a metal finish as possible but a polished part needs to be perfect.

David

[mindover]

This is the finished item as it goes on a replica or real SS100. The one on the right is an original and the other two are some I made recently.


http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=101&pictureid=8147

http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=101&pictureid=8148

David

[orestkustomfabrication]

Any chance you can show how you attach the mesh to the shell.? I'm about to build a grillshell soon and could really need some tips n trix.

Beutiful work!

[mindover]

The mesh is soldered into the trim and the trim is screwed to the shell.

Here is the starter handle hole, more work than you would think to create and fit this and the rest of the insert.

http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=101&pictureid=8150

David

[mindover]

There is quite a bit more to the shells than you can see like these brackets soldered in place.

http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=101&pictureid=8149

and the holes need to be punched in the flange for the bonnet tape.

David