Why metric will never catch on in USA

[Flummo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Omh8Ito-05M

Or will it? :D

[Gene_Olson]

Ulf,

Are you guys still using Tummar over there???

and how many meters of 1/2" square did you use in that iron rail?
Do the lumber yards still sell you so many meters of 2"x4"?

Metric would not have helped.
If you can't read the tape measure it doesn't matter.

Saying one thing and then thinking you said something else. Then taking another measurement at a random point and kind of the same angle.
That has less to do with fractions than being incapable of reading a tape measure.
He has too many angels and demons sitting on his pin head.
and has too much fun spinning the hangers on.

[CARS]

What's even more confusing Ulf is that we actually use both systems.

All frame specs for collision repair racks are in metric :confused:

I'm going to go back in the shop and use my 16 inch sanding block. Pints aren't enough for me after 5:00... I should switch to liters!

[bobadame]

That's amazing, and these guys are millionaires. No wonder their bikes look funny.

[James(Western Canada)]

G-zuz!...I almost smacked my monitor while watching that!!

I'm thinking he rode the short bus to school!!

Either system will work, provided you know how to read a tape, and can add & subtract.....

James

[BLRussell]

Better than Who's on first, What's on second!

[whateg01]

I tend to use metric measurements often in the shop. All of my tools are Imperial so work is done that way, but if I'm transferring measurements, I usually use mm. It's easier to remember 36x61 than 1-13/32x2-25/64. And with all the automotive fasteners being metric nowadays, I am pretty good at eyeballing the size of something.

Dave

[Gene_Olson]

What's even more confusing Ulf is that we actually use both systems.


So is Ulf.

which was my point.

Also that that the Scandinavians have a measure called thumbs.
just a little bigger than an inch (digit, finger)
about 36 and a half of them in a meter instead of 39.4 inches.

I almost came home with a tummar tape just to torment people.

[AndersK]

Gene,
today thumbs are what we use when talking about your inch.

It was more than 20 years ago you would find a 2"x4" at the lumber yard. Those are 45x95 mm today.

Where we still use "thumbs" or inches are in plumbing and hydraulics,
we are as conservative as you in that industry.

You can still buy the "tummar tape" though :cool:

/Anders

[Gene_Olson]

Gene,

It was more than 20 years ago you would find a 2"x4" at the lumber yard. Those are 45x95 mm today.



You can still buy the "tummar tape" though :cool:

/Anders
That is really funny Anders,

45 x 95 is about the same as our standard numerically
1.5 x 3.5 but in tummar
you are just calling it out in mm.

and yeah, it was 42 years ago when I worked over there for a summer.
and the blacksmith and I went to the steel yard to get 1/2" square to make farrowing crates and the lumber yard to get material for the pens and other projects.

[Rasper]

Here in Mexico it's all mixed up:

We buy liters but gallons of paint,
1/2 inch pipe nipples 100 cm long,
2 meters of 3/8 inch copper tubing please,
bolts are in inches, both size and length, but all thread is in meters,
and steel—I buy 1/8 X 3/4 inch angle 6 meters long,
and sheet metal—it comes in centimeters, but 18 or 20 ga.,
it goes on.

It's kind of like languages. The world would probably be a better place if we all spoke a common language. We once did, to an extent, in that up until about 1800, most educated Europeans and Americans spoke enough Latin to be able to talk to each other. That no doubt prevented a lot of disastrous misunderstandings.

Richard

[Bgbkwndo]

The following incident occurred to me recently while taking an "inside" measurement with an inches only tape measure. I notated the length of exposed tape rule, then looked to the side of the tape measure body to add that width to the first...........you guessed it, that measurement was in metric only. TRASH CANNED!!!

Bgbkwndo.

[Hairy-Neil]

Here in Mexico it's all mixed up:


Richard

The same in the UK. When I was refurbing the house 20 years ago, plasterboards came metric width, imperial length. :cool:

[Gene_Olson]

Didn't nasa crash one of the Mars probes that way???

The US was almost "born" with the metric system, but our man in Europe, Ben Franklin got in a tiff with the committee and walked out.

They planned on using the definition of a meter as a fraction of the distance between the equator and the north pole on on the meridian running through Greenwich, England.
Ben said, "You are nuts, you can't measure that accurately, and even if you could a standard should be something anybody can lay their hands on easily." and he proposed that the Meter be defined as the length of a pendulum that had a period (time it takes to swing over and back) of exactly 1 second at sea level. All you had to do to get a meter was find the ocean and a point half way between mean high and low tide and measure a pendulum that matched your clock. (good clocks were a problem too, he lost, even though he was right. They got the survey wrong.) The irony of all that is that for all practical purposes the length that came out of the very expensive and dangerous survey (done during the French revolution when both sides thought the crazy men in the survey towers with the funny telescope looking things and waving flags must be spies, so they shot em) The meter we have today, turned out to be exactly the length of a pendulum with a period of of second at sea level.

[bobadame]

I think the Hubble telescope was ground wrong because someone made an error when converting from one system to the other. It was a very, very expensive mistake.

[CARS]

I think the Hubble telescope was ground wrong because someone made an error when converting from one system to the other. It was a very, very expensive mistake.

It actually had to do with the lack of gravity in space. Warped the lens....(why do I know such useless knowledge?? )

[Brian McCollim]

http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19910003124_1991003124.pdf

According to the official report, it was an error in the manufacturing process and was found by two separate devices but they decided to discount the devices as wrong instead of the lens. It was an error in the manufacturing process and wasn't the result of Metric vs Imperial.

Gene you are correct, if those guys in the video had used the metric system it would have been just as ridiculous. The Imperial system takes it on the chin every time. I have used both all my years as a machinist and I had very little problems with either. We still use machinery in this country that was built with archaic (by todays standards) measuring systems. It doesn't mean they are wrong, just different labels. If you measure something with an inch caliper then measure it with a metric caliper the size did not change. The errors usually reslut from someone feeling a great need to convert that number into a measurement that they understand. It is that conversion that is usually misunderstood. We had an engineer develop an excel spreadsheet to list conversions for us, The first guy to use the charts did not double check, the second guy did. The second guy knew they were wrong but couldn't figure out why. The engineer was determined to prove that he was correct and math doesn't lie. I asked him for his formula and then called him bask and asked him to please carry the decimal 2 more places. It made a world of difference. A 2 place decimal in metric is quite small compared to a two place decimal in the Imperial Inch system.
i also read some of the comments under that video and was a little surprised and perhaps offended by the need to call American stupid because we don't use the metric system. Reality is that we actually do in many of our trades and most skilled craftsmen can use both. Science is strictly metric, and most of the world is metric. I find it funny though that they can not understand our system and they call us stupid because of it. Many of the comments made it sound as though we can't or don't use decimals. I learned how to convert fractions to decimals very early in life and find it quite easy. Decimal to fraction can be a little dificult if you wqnt precision though. (lol) I also find it funny that bearings and seals are routinely metric and most of us just carry on without realizing it. It just looks like a part number . :smile: Gene, I also found your information about Ben Franklin and also the standard for a meter interesting. Sorry for the ramble.

[kit]

I usually use mm. It's easier to remember 36x61 than 1-13/32x2-25/64

That nails the whole thing down.

[Gene_Olson]

I usually use mm. It's easier to remember 36x61 than 1-13/32x2-25/64That nails the whole thing down.

Pretty much the same reason I spec. my tiny repousse tools in millimeters. The biggest is 5/16ths (8mm)
I make em in 9 sizes and various shapes and widths.
5/16ths, 15/64ths, 25/128ths, 5/32nds, 15/128ths, 5/64ths, 15/256ths, 5/128ths, and 5/256ths

or if you prefer
8, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1.5, 1, 0.5 mm :wink:

The numbers are only there for reference. The need is usually something like, "a lot bigger or a little smaller".

Which is bigger 5/64ths or 15/256ths

I guess 0.32, 0.24, 0.20, 0.16, 0.12, 0.08, 0.06, 0.04, & 0.02 inches would have worked.
It is just that simple whole numbers are a lot easier to deal with.

(especially if I am trying type them)

[ESjaavik]

That is really funny Anders,

45 x 95 is about the same as our standard numerically
1.5 x 3.5 but in tummar
you are just calling it out in mm.

Except that 45*95 is 2"*4" :???:

That is because it was 2"*4" when it started out as raw timber.
Adjusted framing lumber was always smaller than the label stated.
So I guess they just ran it through the thicknesser to make it smooth. Then measured what they ended up with and labeled it as such. Here in Norway 2"*4" is labeled as 48mm*98mm.

And if I measure the 48mm with my calipers it says 46mm! I guess the lumber yard guys could not resist pulling me by the nose! :lol:

And I don't understand why someone would call imperial users stupid! They need to be much smarter than us "metricians" to get things right!

[Flummo]

Ulf,

Are you guys still using Tummar over there???

and how many meters of 1/2" square did you use in that iron rail?
Do the lumber yards still sell you so many meters of 2"x4"?

Metric would not have helped.
If you can't read the tape measure it doesn't matter.

Saying one thing and then thinking you said something else. Then taking another measurement at a random point and kind of the same angle.
That has less to do with fractions than being incapable of reading a tape measure.
He has too many angels and demons sitting on his pin head.
and has too much fun spinning the hangers on.

I even forgot I made this thread, but it turend out well enough anyway...

There has been diffrent definitions of how long an inch is, basically any country that used them set their own standard. Nowadays most of them are dead and gone. (For good reason if you ask me, but that's open for debate.)

Yes, I still use inches (25.4mm) at times, but usually only regarding things where it has been a standard size since long ago. Start reading the fine print and you almost always find a more accurate measure in millimetres.

[anders nørgaard]

Inches have different sizes depending on countries. A Danish inch equals 26.145mm a Swedish is 24.7mm a Nowegian inch is the same as the Danish, but in the earlier days a Norwegian inch was 31.4mm

When we're talking metal measurements it's always the Imperial Inch (25.4mm) that is the standard! ;)

[pro70z28]

1 3/16''
or as an apprentice carpenter usta' say many many years ago.

That's 1 inch and 1 little mark past the first little bit bigger sized mark. :D

I still think about that kid whenever a measurement subject comes up. :confused::lol:

[Hairy-Neil]

1 3/16''

That's 1 inch and 1 little mark past the first little bit bigger sized mark. :D

:

Lol..... Our tape measures in the uk have both scales becaues we, as a nation, can't make our minds up which to use. Personally I use whichever is more convenient on the day..... :cool:

[pro70z28]

:lol: This kid was the boss's Nephew, so he couldn't mess up bad enough to get fired no matter what he did.

[whateg01]

Lol..... Our tape measures in the uk have both scales becaues we, as a nation, can't make our minds up which to use. Personally I use whichever is more convenient on the day..... :cool:

The last tape measure I bought had both on it. But it has a different scale on each edge. So far, the scale I want to use has always been on the edge opposite the side I need to make the measurement on. :(

Dave

[Gene_Olson]

Inches have different sizes depending on countries. A Danish inch equals 26.145mm a Swedish is 24.7mm a Nowegian inch is the same as the Danish, but in the earlier days a Norwegian inch was 31.4mm

When we're talking metal measurements it's always the Imperial Inch (25.4mm) that is the standard! ;)

heh heh,

it with all the different national measures like that, it is no wonder they wanted to standardize on a single system.

there is of course, the old carpenters trick.
all measurements are marked off on a "storyboard"
no numbers, just a mark to show exactly how long each thing needs to be.

Just don't lose the stick.

G.

[Hairy-Neil]

So far, the scale I want to use has always been on the edge opposite the side I need to make the measurement on. :(

Dave

I blame the french, they've never forgotten Agincourt.... ;)

[whateg01]

My boss is an immigrant from UK. He blames them too! Must be a Brit thing. :)

Dave

[DanGunit]

While we are on the subject of tape measures....does anybody know where I can get those cool sweedish tape measures that Lazzie shows videos of? I know in the video he says you can get them from his site, but I have never been able to find them there.

[anders nørgaard]

Hi Daniel,

The "Talmeter" tape measure is made by Hultafors.
Here's a link to the UK Hultafors site http://www.hultafors.co.uk/www/live/hultaforsgroup/nyheter.aspx?TreeID=25421

Don't know if you have a similar company in the States

[Gene_Olson]

Another odd bit about this even.

is that we are writing all this on computers that if given the option are most efficient when computing by halves, quarters, eighths, sixteens, etc. etc.
Computers don't have ten fingers to count on.

binary coded decimal only flies in calculators. (base 10)

for real number crunching it is all base 2. halves, quarters,

It isn't that the Brits, and the US are behind the curve.

We were just ahead of our time.:p

[whateg01]

And even then it isn't clear. 1k = 1024. :)

Dave

[dmc1]

Perfectly clear! 2,4,8,16,32,64,128,256,512,1024.

And its called 1k for the same reason that 112 pounds is called a hundredweight. Seems logical to me.

Dave Cameron

[DanGunit]

Thanks Anders...unfortunately, I don't see it available in fractional, only metric :( , guess I will have to call Lazzie and see if he still has any available or search out another Hultafors supplier on this side of the pond.

Cheers,

[CARS]

20 grains = 1 scruple

3 scruples = 1 drachm

and my favorite, 10 chains = 1 furlong :rolleyes: