welding very thin sheetmetal?

[cfiiman]

Hey all,

I am working with a big section of 20ga sheet metal and I am having trouble welding it with my wire fed arc welder...Even on the lower voltage settings...is this metal just way too thin to weld or is there some technique or different welder for this stuff?...Thanks for all the help...

Jason

[cfiiman]

Sorry, as far as "trouble" I mean I am burning through it if I stay on it too long...but if I go to fast I won't get a descent weld...

Jason

[Ricky Ingalls]

Hi Cfiiman
I would use tig or gas welding or you could tack weld with wire until finished.

[Randy Ferguson]

Hi Jason,
You have to weld thin gauge sheetmetal much differently than you would heavier plate, even in the 1/8" range. You must weld a series of spot welds, with each one overlapping the last. I try to overlap by a 1/3 to 1/2 on each successive weld. You will also need to stop at regular intervals (not more than an inch) and stretch that area out before moving on, otherwise, it will have more distortion than you care to deal with.
You start by placing tack welds at 1" intervals to keep the two pieces in good alignment. (I'm only assuming you're butt welding, at this point.) You can then start the welding process. I prefer to start in the center of the seam and work out both directions toward the edge. You must stop and work the weld as you go though. To best do this, a 1/16" cut-off wheel works great for knocking down the proud weld bead. You want to leave just a tiny amount of weld above the surface, because you're going to work this down some as you hammer the weld to stretch the metal back out. You only work within the Heat Affected Zone or HAZ as we often refer to. This is the blued area around the weld. Do not leave the area when stretching a weld. Even though the surrounding area is distorted, it is still unharmed. It's just sucked in down some when the metal shrunk along the HAZ. It will pop right back into place when you stretch the weld seam. You stretch it by hammering on dolly, in other words, you place a dolly on the backside of your weld and hit it with a hammer, making sure your hammer blows are against the dolly (or post dolly if you have one) This will rapidly stretch the area drawn in by the heat and relieve the panel of the stress caused by the heat, removing the warpage. You can now add another series of adjoining spots and continue the process, jumping back and forth from side to side, working ever closer to the edges of the panel until finished. Once you've gotten the weld completed, you can go back and fine tune the weld seam work the panel with a slapper and dolly, producing a very smooth panel. I prefer to use a file to work down the final few thousandths of proud weld, rather than a grinder that will remove too much material. A shrinking disc will come in real handy too, to shrink any areas that you overstretch. I plan to replace a lower section of a '39 Ford fender tonight. I'll document the process and enter it here.
Good Luck

[Keith]

Sorry, as far as "trouble" I mean I am burning through it if I stay on it too long...but if I go to fast I won't get a descent weld...

Hello Cfiiman,

You answered your own question. You are staying in one place to long.

20 gage isn't to thin to wire weld. Tack it were you want it and then fill it in with more tacks till it is completely solid. The more you tack the better you will get at welding small spurts of up to 1".

A 1" weld with a wire welder is about the limit on sheet metal without a lot of warpage. You do not want to weld continueously on sheet metal.

[Butch Duke]

Hi Jason
I will have to agree with Randy's post. The only other thing that I would add to his post is, make sure that you do not get your panel to hot when you jump around welding it up. Let it air cool to the touch or you may use a blow gun to cool your panel down before you start metal working your welds. I also would not use any water, it usually will work harden the metal.
Other than that I would follow his post. If you have any more problems do not hesitate to ask. Some one on this site will jump in & help.

Specialty Interests
metal fabrication
& painting
360/373/7650
Butch

[Hemirambler]

Jason, Too add just a wee tiny bit to what you've already been told....I have noticed that some of the el cheapo wire welders just plain WON'T weld the thin stuff very well - PERIOD. Even so with these you CAN still get the job done but you will be likely needing to making LOTS of welds - on off on off ............rough on the contactor!!!!

On the other hand some Mig's will let you REVERSE the polarity - my little Miller will - it's OLDER so it isn't as convient as flipping a switch (I have to move jumpers inside) - I don't do it often but ocasionally it did help alot.


Another approach is to run the thinnest wire you can feed - combine that with a SHALLOW angle of attack and you might find it more sucessful.

Just thinking out loud!! :shock:

Your mileage may vary :oops:



Jacin in Ohio


SOMB

[Bambi]

I aggree with the others on thin stuff. I have repaired roof panels where you can't get in behind with a dolly. I tack everything with a 1" spacing and jump around with my welds, doing as Randy with the overlap spots, if you get your machine set nice nice the welds will burn in real nice and won;t be too proud. As soon as I finish up a one inch section, I will hit it with the blow gun. If you watch the weld you can actually see it and the metal around it rise, you can use this to your advantage and shrink it right then and there with air. Watching and reading your welding is key to keeping distortion to a minimum. Even when tacking with the Mig, I sometimes give it a blast of air, keeping the metal where I want it.
Cut off wheels are great, I use 1/8" or 1/4"if I can get them to knock down the welds.
Never used a shrinking disk, I use a variety of methods including using the Mig with an old burt out tip and with the wire feed shut off, that with water, air and slappers etc work fine for me.
I think the others will aggree that the more stuff ya do the better and easier it becomes.

Bambi

[KustomsRus]

Bambi, if you get a chance to try a shrinking disc do it! They are amazing :D My son-in-law purchased one at MM03 from the door prize winner (I guess the winner already had one). He gave it to me. Randy and I have been using it a bunch. We gave a demonstration of it at the regional meet in January. I'm sure you would add it to "your most important and used tool list, they are awesome :shock:

Jerry Kennedy

[cfiiman]

Wow guys, thanks for the great info...I'll give the tacking a try...knew I had to be doing something wrong...I'll let you know how it goes when I get back out in the shop...love this board!

thanks again,

Jason

[Randy Ferguson]

Hi Jason,
Here are the pictures I promised you.

This is the right rear fender for a '39 Ford Sedan. It had previously been repaired (Uh, Hmm. I mean butchered) by another so called bodyman. Also pictured are the 19ga. repair panels I shaped for the repair.

http://www.metalmeet.com/photopost/data/3651/11rr_fender_with_repair_panels.jpg

The botched previous repair has been removed and the new panel tack welded.

http://www.metalmeet.com/photopost/data/3651/11rr_fender_new_panel_tack_welded.jpg

Here is a close up so you see that the butt joint is very tight. Also notice that I've chamfered both the replacement panel and the original fender. This is a tip from Wray that proves to work great. No problem with burning through and penetration is excellent

http://www.metalmeet.com/photopost/data/3651/11rr_fender_tack_welded_tight_seam.jpg

As I mentioned in my previous post, I try to overlap each successive spot weld by 1/3-1/2. This picture doesn't show it as well as I had hoped, but I think you can make it out if you look closely

http://www.metalmeet.com/photopost/data/3651/11rr_fender_weld_bead_overlap.jpg

Here is the weld seam after running a complete series of 1 inch overlapping spot weld segments, followed by stretching along the Heat Affected Zone as mentioned in the previous post.

http://www.metalmeet.com/photopost/data/3651/11rr_fender_patch_roughed_in.jpg

Once I have it roughed in on the exterior side, I remove the proud weld bead from the inner side and further planish the weld seam with a slapper and dolly, carefully bringing up the low spots and filing away the remaining few thousandths of proud weld bead. I then run over the entire repaired area with a shrinking disc to remove any overstretched spots. Here are the results. No body filler will be needed, the panel is stress free, and there will be no worry of seeing a seam or early paint failure, common to lapped repair procedures.

http://www.metalmeet.com/photopost/data/3651/11rr_fender_replacement_panel_finished.jpg

[Wray Schelin]

Hi Randy,

Hey, you can't butt mig weld sheetmetal and have it come out that nice. http://www.metalmeet.com/photopost/data/3160/4tactland_idolater.gif?6754

Looks like you http://www.metalmeet.com/photopost/data/3160/4hammer-vi-thumb.gif

again!!!!!

Hey, your photography ain't bad either. :D

Wray

[John Kelly]

Beautiful job Randy!

John www.ghiaspecialties.com

[ralph]

Great job Randy,

Did I just pick up a tip? It looks like you ground the tacks down before you ran the beads. Good idea I had never thought of.

[John Jordan]

Randy,

A very good post with great photos :!: I'm looking forward to meeting you in April maybe, October for sure. :D

[KustomsRus]

John, I look forward to meeting you also at Randy's. I feel very fortunate to be working on the 39 Ford project with Randy :lol: I have been able to watch and help with this fender repair, watched Randy make the flexible shape pattern (from the LEFT rear fender) turn it inside out for the right side, then make the patch panel (in two pieces) weld it in, use slapper and dolly to work down the weld areas and use the shrinking disc :shock: It is perfectly smooth, ready for primer and NO filler :shock: This has been a hands on learning experience for me and I'm finally beginning to see a dim glow of the lightbulb beginning to turn on for me :P I enjoy the priming and painting but the true metal shaping has been a struggle. I've always got it fairly close in shape and used a skim coat of filler :oops:

Jerry Kennedy

[Boogiemanz1]

Randy, nicely done. If the patience is there the work shows it. Looking forward to coming again.........john

[bcarlson]

Excellent post Randy. This shows that you don't need the cost prohibitive TIG welders to do a very nice job!

Thanks for the info, it's very enlightening!

Ben

[rookie]

Beautiful work Randy! I've got some cab corners to put on my 53 P/U pretty soon, I'll give that method a try. Are you MIG or Oxy/Acet welding the panels?
Jacin, I can change polarity on my welder also, but what is the advantage of doing so?

Thanks, Phil

[Hemirambler]

Hi Phil, Just to be clear - I am not suggesting you have to change the polarity to weld the thinner stuff, but it is something that you might want to try out. Mig's are typically set up for maximum penetration - great for 1/4" plate not so great for the really thin stuff. Mine at least will crank the amps when you crankup the wire speed - usually this is good but not always entirely desireable on the thinner panels.

My understanding of it goes something like this:

The polarity controls the flow (direction) of electrons - which is typically "from" the welder "to" the workpiece. With this flow of electrons comes the HEAT. By reversing the flow you direct some of the heat towards the gun and not the metal. Much like you reverse the polarity of a TIG to "ball" your tungsten. Doing this is simply one more adjustment that may or may not provide a desireable result (based on many factors). In doing thin sheet metal the penetration is normally NOT a concern because you're gonna have PLENTY of heat. Reversing the poliarity may allow you to better control the heat.

Try it out and see what the results are - hopefully they will be good.


Jacin in Ohio

[Randy Ferguson]

Hi Phil,
I'm using a MIG on this because the original question was concerning burn through on thin sheet using a wire feed MIG welder. I use .030 wire set pretty hot so it keeps the weld fairly flat and yields great penetration. My welder hates .023 wire. It just won't weld good with it. I cannot reverse the polarity, so I haven't a clue what that would do. Jacin has covered that, so if you have that option on your welder, try it.
Thanks for all the positive comments guys.

[Bambi]

Super Job Randy, can't beat that with a stick. Makes ya wonder why so many still want to stick with Tig welding. I have Tig and have welded for too many years. Mig is a bodymans dream tool if they learn a few different techniques and practice and also experiment.
I have a small gun that I used to use when buildin a lot of roll cages and even a roll of 020 wire which has sat on the shelf for many years, it didn't do anything for me. I could leave 030 in the machine and weld most anything just by changing settings.
I think with the chamfering and grinding the tacks that the 020 may have some possibilities. Might have to put in some magnifiing lenses to see what I am doin.
I have to aggree that Tig is nice, but its slower, and a more expensive proccess. If the quality is the same as your fender has shown it only means better production and more profit. Time is money.
With the advent of 110 Migs it opens the doors to a lot of new metalshapers. They are more affordable and easy to use.
Tig machines aren't cheap, the consumables are expensive, there is a big learning curve if one wants to use the full potential of the machine and process.
As for the shrinking disk, I am curious, cuz the the original one was large and had a rippled edge, Sunchaser tools. Used a giant grinder we used them grinders for ships and big weldments. Now I use one half that size, same horsepower, spins on the order of 10,000 rpm. I think mine runs 12,500 the tags are all worn off. It uses a 5 inch wheel and the smaller grinders use 4's and 4.5 wheels and spin 10 grand. Are you makin homemade shrinkin disks? Or is someone makein one with the rippled edge. Does the rippling have any value? One disk I saw in here was flat with a rolled over edge, I guess so they wouldn't cut themselves. I don't think I ever had a guard on any of my grinders.
Show me the disk and please explain your technique.
A note on materials:
I notice a lot of guys tryin to get AK steel, yet they don't know the difference between CR and HR. HR pickled and oiled has virtually the same outward appearance as CR. Then they always are tryin to get 19 ga, the difference between that and 18 ga is only a few thousands, they will take that off as soon as they hit it with a grinder and once they work it, it don't mean squat. I use whatever is cheaper and available as do a few others. Most of the automotive stuff is gonna get painted anyways, maybe even a little bo bo for good measure. Strike that word.
Now if AK is good, why not try and get some 1006 instead of the usual 1018 1020, in the dead soft state, you can scribe it with your fingernail, it might even be better.

Head Shrinking
Bambi

[Butch Duke]

Lookin real good their Randy!!!!!

Specialty Interests
metal fabrication
& painting
360/3737650
Butch

[snotzalot]

Does the rippling have any value? One disk I saw in here was flat with a rolled over edge, I guess so they wouldn't cut themselves.

The value of a disc without the ripples is you can make it in your own shop for 10 bucks in raw materials, it works as well and even reported better than the rippled disc's and we turn the edge for safety.

[John Kelly]

Hi Bambi,

Randy did a gorgeous job, but I've found that gas-welding is faster than mig when you factor in grinding etc. You can gas-weld without stopping for 10" or so, planish... stretch a little, and you are way ahead of a mig, and the metal is not work-hardened the way a mig-welded panel appears to be....and it's cheap! Try running a mig welded panel through your e-wheel (actually don't!)or cutting through a mig weld with aviation snips. When compared to a gas weld the mig weld is like a stiffener in the panel. I agree that a mig-welder is a great tool, just not the best for sheet metal.

About shrinking discs, a flat one has more work area, is easier to master, and is safer. It should last a lot longer too. You can make your own, or if you like, I can make one for you: ghiafab@msn.com There is a picture of my disc in the gallery.
Once you've used one, you will never go back! I do think anything above 6,000 rpm may not be safe, rpm as high as 10,000 are not necessary. I've shrunk using 3400 rpm but it is a bit slower to shrink than 6,000 rpm. Sunchaser (www.sunchaser.com) makes the rippled disc. I'm guessing the ripples are for stiffness. They certainly are not required for shrinking.

John www.ghiaspecialties.com

[Bambi]

Thanks guys for the info. As for gas welding, I did my fair share ot that and Hammer weldin since I was a kid. All good things to learn.
In part of what I posted was in thinkin of the newbies. Not all have the do re me to go out and buy all sorts of tools, yet like all of us in some ways, we want more than we need.
Most newbies will go out and buy a 110 mig far before they buy a set of OA torches. When I was a kid they didn't have 110 migs, only gigantic industrial machines, same with heli arc.
Personally I think the guys in the group are steerin the newbies in the right direction with. Hammers, shot bags, tucking tools etc. Learning the basic principles which apply even to machines.
Tools are great but knowledge is power. In here ya can read all sorts of great info but if ya don't aplly it and practice ya can't know.
John I like gas welding it is probably the most versatile of tools, what is learned there goes on to arc, mig and tig welding.
But as stated newbies like easy and cheap. I sense that they will spring for a mig first.
My thoughts on shrinking are simple, when I was a kid, shrinking ment heating it up and quenching the area, as time progressed someone taught me how to use hammer and dolly and slappers.
Big shrinks were unheard of. it was easier to cut out pieces and then weld the rest together, sorta like people that sew, they remove a dart and stitch it up.
Later we moved onto the hand held shrinkers sold by companies like Eastwood, very limited, the dart method worked faster and easier. I still do it. I don't see that there is a right way or wrong way if the end result is the same.
Too bad the tucking tools weren't around but then there had to be the technique that needed to be learned.
I think the newbies have an advantage today because of groups like this that are willing to share and teach, but the newbie has to do his part and practice, he can dream about the machines in his sleep.
Again knowledge is power.

Burnin for dollars
Bambi

[rookie]

Randy, When you initially fit your replacement panel for welding what did you use to clamp it? Long reach vise grips, ect? Also if I am reading your post correctly, you completely welded the seam overlapping each spot weld with another, ground the spots down and ran 1" beads over them and reworked those welds. Is this correct? If so what is the advantage of doing so, when you already have the panel welded? :? Do you recommend using an O/A torch over the MIG for a softer bead? I have both and hate having to gouge the heck out of the steel after using the MIG.

Thanks, Phil

[ralph]

hate having to gouge the heck out of the steel after using the MIG.

Phil,
I think your thinking :?: of using a large grinder to cut down the weld.

What I learned in the last couple of years is to use a small die grinder with a edge of a cut off wheel to grind just the weld bead. When I get close I'll switch to a 1 or 2 inch rolloc with 120 grit and finish up with a 3m rolloc. Now, my seams don't look as good as Randy's but they get better with practice, practice, practice :lol:

[rookie]

Hi Ralph,I appreciate the come back, I've started using 50 grit rolocs instead of the stone on my 4' grinder and it helps. My biggest problem is training myself to slow down and be more patient. :oops: I need to get rid of the production shop mentality. :) The earlier posts of leaving the welds a little high as they are worked has helped me too. Need to get me a digital camera to show some work.

Thanks for the help everyone, Phil

[Randy Ferguson]

Hi Phil,
I overlap each weld bead by 1/3 to 1/2, just to make sure the penetration is good and this also allows me to burn it in a little hotter, since the previous bead is a little proud. I DO NOT go back over the weld with a constant 1" bead. I just make a series of overlapping spot welds in 1" segments, grind down the weld bead leaving it just a few thousandths proud with the edge of a 1/16" cut off wheel in a die grinder and work out the warpage, before moving on the the next series of welds. You could run an O/A torch over it if it makes you feel better, but I have no problems working the mig welds. YES, they are a little tougher to work that TIG or gas welded seams, but not impossible by any means. I think if we took a poll of how many of our TOP PROFESSIONALS here started out using MIG, similar to how I've demonstrated, you'd be overwhelmed. Take everything you've ever learned by reading a book or article that says you CANNOT metalfinish MIG welds and erase it from your mind. I don't read technical books anymore. I read everything I could get my hands on when I first started painting cars 17 years ago, but over the years I've learned that most of what I read is a bunch of hooey. I used to go to Jerry Kennedy for advice on painting. His style of teaching has taught me more than just how to paint. I would go to his shop and ask a batch of questions, but rather than saying, "Here, watch me" he'd tell me to go try this, that, and the other and you'll learn by your mistakes. The same holds true with most anything I've done in life. You just gotta do it to separate fact from fiction.
Thanks Jerry

[Dutch Comstock]

There has always been the controversy of the mig weld being harder to work than a tig weld. They both use 70,000 lb tensile steel filler rod. the basic difference in the makeup of mig wire and tig wire is the mig wire has more silicon in it to make it function better for the mig machine.I think the problem everyone worried about was the high proud weld left and that is hard to work if it is not ground down. Also in the old days of torch welding a lot of the metalmen worked the gas weld hot and they could easily crush the weld as they went.They still had the shrink problem as it was still hot and would shrink untill almost cool. The two hardest things to control for the beginner on a mig welded joint is that they do too much welding at one time creating a lot of heat and thus a large shrink.Then when the grind the proud weld joint they grind through the weld a lot. All 3 of the common methods of joining sheetmetal.ox acetalene torch, Mig and tig all work real well when you take the time to properly learn the method of the equipment you have Dutch

[rookie]

I appreciate all the advice. I've been using a bit more heat and less wire speed as suggested by Rob Murray in a weld post, that really reduced the size of the bead as he said it would. The beveling of both edges prior to welding makes sense also, it would give plenty of penetration and reduce the weld grind through that Dutch was talking about since some bead is below the surface. I'm about ready to install cab corners on my P/U, butting them up but what is the best way to secure them? C clamps and a couple pieces of sheet metal between the jaws to hold the panels?

Thanks always, Phil

[Randy Ferguson]

Any old way you can hold 'em, Phil. Sometimes, we just have to get creative :wink:

[Dutch Comstock]

Actually the mig welder does a better job with a gap between the panels about the thickness of the wire size.You get full penetration and a lower weld bead.There are panel holders that fit between the gap and hold the panel tight and Jerry Gulley among others sell them You can make your own sheet metal holders with a one inch strip of sheet metal and drill a hole through both sides of the metal anf the one inch strip and fasten with cleco`s or sheetmetal screws or blind rivits and then weld the hoes up when you are done.You don`t have to buy anything then. Dutch

[KustomsRus]

Randy and I have also used magnets, they are smaller than a quarter but larger than a nickle. Randy thought someone left them after MM03. I would like to purchase some for myself they are so handy :lol: Any ideas where they came from? They are a great "extra set of hands"

:roll:

Jerry Kennedy

[John Jordan]

Jerry,

A GREAT source for rare earth magnets is www.leevalley.com. They are a woodworking supplier and have a large selection of magnets and thing that go with them. It's also one of the nicest catlogs you'll ever see, and ther are lots of things there of interest to metal shapers. :)

[KustomsRus]

John, Thanks a bunch!!!! I got them ordered :lol: They are handy little boogers and I'm sure I'll find other uses for them.

Jerry Kennedy

[v2cad]

Jerry
2 things to watch out for when using those strong magnets. they will "Pull" the arc when TIG or MIG welding too close to them, and more important if they get too hot you'll loose the magnetism. I've been told that if you heat them back to "critical tempreature" and expose them to a strong magnet you could rejuvinate them. Sounded like too much work for me. Threw them away and kept the new ones away from the heat.

J.

[KustomsRus]

Thanks for the tip J. I've been using them just to hold patch panels in place and tack the panel in place :D So far no problems but I don't expose them to much heat, as soon as the panel is tacked I remove them and finish the welding process :lol:

Jerry Kennedy

[Ken Strong]

Hi guys,
I'm learning how to mig weld sheet metal also. I had the same problem as jason until I used a piece copper clamped to the back of where I was welding. It kept me from burning holes as fast. I split a piece of 3/4in. copper water pipe flatened it out and used that. It sure helped me out as a beginer

[gregfri]

Bambi-in regards to shrinking discs-I too was taught to shrink with a torch and a wet rag but after reading about discs I built one following instructions here.I have a 5 in. grinder ,10,000 rpm.I built the disc and have played with it a little bit and it seems to work fine at this rpm.Have to do some more expirimenting. One thing I like about the shrinking disc is you can set the grinder down on floor after heating spot and quench spot quickly,With the torch method,I found that by the time I had set down the torch without burning something,the spot had already cooled some. May seem like a small thing,but anyone having shrunk with a torch has probably burned something when trying to put it down quickly.
As for mig welding-Randy's method is exactly what I have been doing.Good to see someone else reinforcing my thoughts that you don't have to have a tig.(just wish my joints looked as good as his)I would still like to get a tig,but don't have time to learn to use one now.When I first started in autobody trade,migs were very new(we did'nt have one) so I leaarned to gas weld and still use it a fair bit.I feel gas welding is still a very good technique to learn and it is too bad that it is almost a forgotten thing in autobdy work. Greg

[John Kelly]

Hi Greg,

I hope you are checking your disc for cracks before use...every time. 10,000 rpm is a lot! Maybe you should wear gloves? It is not necessary to be in a hurry to quench. Take your time, let the disc come to a stop while still pressed against the metal, and go at a leisurely pace. Less chance of injury, and works just as well.

John www.ghiaspecialties.com

[Wray Schelin]

Hi Greg,

I use my 5" disc only occasionally when conditions dictate it's use . I use it on my Milwaukee 5" variable speed grinder. Most of the time I use my 9" grinder.

Wray

[Hot Rod Mike]

Jerry,

A GREAT source for rare earth magnets is www.leevalley.com. They are a woodworking supplier and have a large selection of magnets and thing that go with them. It's also one of the nicest catlogs you'll ever see, and ther are lots of things there of interest to metal shapers. :)

To John & all,

What size magnets do you find the best for holding the panels together ? I checked the Lee Valley website, & the offer several sizes. Also, I'm assuming you get the circular magnets only ?

Thanks,

Mike Winters :D

[Hot Rod Mike]

Jerry,

A GREAT source for rare earth magnets is www.leevalley.com. They are a woodworking supplier and have a large selection of magnets and thing that go with them. It's also one of the nicest catlogs you'll ever see, and ther are lots of things there of interest to metal shapers. :)

To John & all,

What size magnets do you find the best for holding the panels together ? I checked the Lee Valley website, & the offer several sizes. Also, I'm assuming you get the circular magnets only ?

Thanks,

Mike Winters :D

[v2cad]

Mike
Here's another source for the rare earth magnets.
www.wondermagnets.com
I've been getting mine at the Macgungie swap meet. Every year I pick up a few more, but that guy doesn't seem to be restocking. Most are only about a 1/2" dia. They're so strong that you don't need anything bigger. I did get one about 1" and it's all you can do to remove it.
J.

[v2cad]

Mike
Here's another source for the rare earth magnets.
www.wondermagnets.com
I've been getting mine at the Macgungie swap meet. Every year I pick up a few more, but that guy doesn't seem to be restocking. Most are only about a 1/2" dia. They're so strong that you don't need anything bigger. I did get one about 1" and it's all you can do to remove it.
J.

[KustomsRus]

Mike, I ordered the 3/4" and 1" magnets and they work fine for me. The Lee Valley catalogue that came in the shipment is great :lol: lots of hardware items, it's nice to have in your library :D

Jerry Kennedy

[KustomsRus]

Mike, I ordered the 3/4" and 1" magnets and they work fine for me. The Lee Valley catalogue that came in the shipment is great :lol: lots of hardware items, it's nice to have in your library :D

Jerry Kennedy

[Hot Rod Mike]

Hey Randy & all,

I've read & re-read your repair feature in this post on the fender. First of all, I am impressed that you can finish metal this well 8) Now I know this can be done, I have a goal to strive for.

Now a couple of questions - I'm getting ready in a few weeks to bob the rear fenders on my 33 Ford. Your fender repair article will serve well when it comes time to metal finish the fenders properly.
1. It appears you actually have a wide width to your weld, so I'm guessing you weave or put some motion into your weld patterns. Is this true ? & for any other reasons than to make sure you get the seam welded ?
2. You stated you like to finish off the welds with a file - are you using Vixen files or some specialized file related to the auto restoration field ? Do you have sources for these ? Will one file do me, or will I need an assortment ?


Thanks to all,

Mike Winters :D

[Randy Ferguson]

Hi Mike,
Actually, I hold the mig gun pretty steady. The wider flatter weld is a result of a hot weld. I use .030 wire and turn up the heat. Maximum penetration is prefered, which you sometimes don't get with cold welds.

An assortment of files will be good. I don't use anything special, just common files.

OH! one thing that's a must have, is a piece of corncob stuck on the end of your files. They make the best handles!!!

[qwantus]

Randy,

You worried me there a second. I wasn't sure where you were going with the corn cob thing.

[Hot Rod Mike]

Hey Randy,

I need another suggestion for handles for the files - I can't get the corn cobs away from Grandpa. This is his"stash" for making pipes !!!!

Thanks again,

Mike

[Sam Yellowbird]

There is a company called JW harris that makes a special wire for MIG that is usde to weld thin sections..Seems to work fine for me tho I have not tried it on any body work..

I have used a heat sink to keep thin metal from warping on me..I used a piece of iron with a wet rag held behind the metal while tacking..reduced the warp deal a lot..

Had to do something as I did not have a clue about all this at the time..

Thanks

[Gene_Olson]

Hey Randy,

I need another suggestion for handles for the files - I can't get the corn cobs away from Grandpa. This is his"stash" for making pipes !!!!

Thanks again,

Mike
Dead golf balls, the ones with solid centers. drilling into a pressurized liquid center is rude.

G.

[wtowns01]

Gene, how do you tell if the golf ball is dead and has a solid center?
I tried getting the rubber straps off of one once when a kid and cut the compressed liquid center and it squirted in my eyes. Not a good thing.
You can make good file handles from Jett Sett or Protoplast Pellets. That thermo plastic stuff.
http://www.wfr-aquaplast.com/tmppcc_default.htm

I have been experimenting with it and kind of neat stuff.

[Gene_Olson]

Dead?

Old ones get so they don't fly as well, or so I am told. I was not the golfer of the family.
Dead means mainly, out of service.
I find them out in our field where neighbors have taken "dead" ones and sent them off on a final mission, practice swing.

Liquid centers, That would be something to ask the guy at the pro shop. They all look the same to me. I would guess that putting the ball in a vice in the drill press and then tying a wrag or maybe a sponge shield to the bit and wearing safety goggles would be the easiest way to deal with it. If you hit a liquid core, make note of the brand and don't do it again.


G.

[strtrcer222]

I've learned alot so far from reading this thread but I was wondering a few things.
1. Are you doing anything to soften the weld?
2. When you hammer and dolly what shape hammer are you using?
3. Do you grind down the weld on the backside too?
4. What do you do if you can't get to the backside of the panel?
Just a few questions
Thanks Phil

[sj413]

4. What do you do if you can't get to the backside of the panel?

That's what I thought. Because I have to replace a rocker panel on an nissan 200sx soon, but I won't be able to get to the back of the panel with a dolly.

[Randy Ferguson]

Phil,

1. No. There's no need to soften the weld. Removing the majority of the proud weld is sufficient.

2. Hammers are bad!! I believe it was suggested to use a slapper, rather than a hammer.

3. If there's access to the backside and only where it needs a little proud weld knocked down.

4. You either make access to it, or make specialized tooling to reach the backside of the weld.

[benchracer1]

I should have found this post before i asked the same question last night on a new thread. My proud is way high and ugly. Headin out to try 030 wire and higher heat.

[Cobra06]

I like the J.W. Harris "twenty Gauge" MIG wire, it's a .030 cored (not flux) wire that does a nice job without burn through. Quimby welding is selling some on Ebay with a description of it's capability and setting suggestions for various welders. Helps non-pros like me do a better job :smile:

Twenty Gauge (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=11774&item=7589468592)

David