Tucking Tools and hand shrinking explained

[Wray Schelin]

Tucking tools are used to grab the edge of a panel and by twisting the tool you create a tapered tuck or gathered edge. Once you have the gathered edge you then crush it ( see picture below of tuck and general hit pattern, which keeps the tuck gathered).

Also, when crushing a tuck, keep lifting the panel up slightly as you go out to the edge, by doing so you will further insure that the tuck stays trapped and you will achieve maximum edge shrinkage, which is the objective. Make sure that you don't allow the metal to fold over itself, if it does you have to stop and open up the fold.Take the tucks on the inside surface of the panel. When you do it that way you only need a flat surface to crush them against and the process will be much easier to accomplish. If you make the tucks oriented toward the outside of the panel you will need a whole series of "heads" ( rounded stakes , large post dollies) to crush them with. On some very deep shapes like deep bowls you have to use heads because you will not have access in the inside of the panel to crush the tuck( you will hit the other edge of the bowl with the hammer).

Below is a picture of my three shop made tucking tools. The size difference allows deeper tucks, depending on the shape and panel.

Also, I included a close up of the tips on my large tucking tool. Make sure that you make the ends of the tines as rounded as possible. If they are sharp they will dig into the metal causing a slight scar.

Why, you might ask, do you need to shrink an edge? By shrinking the edge you create shape inboard on the panel. Some panels have very little shape ( the area increase on flat panel which creates the desired compound curve) Most shapes are created by stretching the inboard section of the panel and shrinking along the edges. Some shapes ( low crowns, like some compound curve door skins) can be made by stretching only.

Wray


http://www.metalmeet.com/photopost/data/3242/medium/4tuckingtools.JPG
9028

http://www.metalmeet.com/photopost/data/3242/medium/4tuckingtips.JPG
9029

http://www.metalmeet.com/photopost/data/3001/medium/4shrinkpattern.JPG
9030

[snotzalot]

Great post Wray!

I'll add that making and crushing a tuck isn't rocket science. It's just something you have to try. 18, 19 or 20 ga CR steel is easy to "tuck" and following Wrays diagram to crush the tuck, you'll find it will crush just like magic! :D

[John Kelly]

I've noticed when crushing a tuck, that it helps to hit the highest outside part of the tuck one hard blow making an "M" shape which helps lock the tuck in place for shrinking.

John www.ghiaspecialties.com

[goleafsgo_12]

Great post Wray, just what im looking for, keep 'em coming! Im printing it as we speak! lol

Ryan

[Boogiemanz1]

Wray, Tucking might be a good subject for your next video!....John

[snotzalot]

Wray, Tucking might be a good subject for your next video!....John

I think Wray ought to write a book! :)

[Wray Schelin]

Hi Paul,

Hey, this is a book, except it is different than a traditional book. One, it is free; two, it is interactive; three, you can add video like John suggested;four, you can add as many pictures and drawings as needed; five, you can go back and edit at any time if something you wrote was not clear ; six, there can be many authors all working for the same purpose.

I'm just trying to use the internet to it's fullest potenial. I also think that a "web based book" is much better than a regular book for all of the above reasons :D

The only downside is you don't have a book in your hands to peruse. To do that you have to take the initiative and print out the material and place it in a binder.

Most of the cost of a traditional book is in the printing and distribution . Those costs are free by publishing on the web.

Wray

[goleafsgo_12]

well said, thats what I do!

[Corey74]

Great post Wray!

I'll add that making and crushing a tuck isn't rocket science. It's just something you have to try. 18, 19 or 20 ga CR steel is easy to "tuck" and following Wrays diagram to crush the tuck, you'll find it will crush just like magic! :D

Guess what....it worked just like you all said it would....pics to follow when I figure out ....A. Where I put the camera, and B. if I remember to get batteries tomorrow.

:lol:

[goleafsgo_12]

what does CR stand for? Cold rolled?

[snotzalot]

what does CR stand for? Cold rolled?

Oui c'est correct.

[goleafsgo_12]

Merci beucoup mon ami :wink:

[toolmanMike]

Wray,

Would you fill in the blanks here for all three tuck tools? There's no reference of scale in your picture and it would really help to have a few basic dimensions.

Thanks,
Mike
http://www.metalmeet.com/photopost/data/3301/2015tuck_tool_dims.jpg

[Kerry Pinkerton]

Mike, that yellow orange thing above the forks is a utility knife laid there for a scale reference. I'd estimate its 5-6" long. I have a similar model.

[Wally8]

Hey guys. Nice site. I've really been enjoying all the new info.

I actually started to beat some metal over the last few days and made a couple little dishes and it pretty much went just the way it was described in the text. I did one of .040 aluminum and another with 22ga steel. I got about an inch and a half of dish with each on a 8 or 9 inch diameter piece.

My only problem is that I think my tuck crushing technique needs some improvement. I'm just using a soft faced mallet (hardware store type with the small interchangeable faces). It appears that I'm just flattening the tuck and not getting much shrink. I can't really pull off the hammering pattern as described.

Here's the question: What profile of a hammer should I be using and what material should it be made of?

Thanks again for all the info so far. It looks like I'm going to have some fun with this new interest.


Jeff

[ralph]

Jeff,
Sounds like your off to a good start. You asked about hammers. The best I have used is a chisel point with a small flat at the end of the tip.

Jlrussell posted this pic of one he built in his members gallery.

http://www.metalmeet.com/photopost/data/3016/8hammer5-med.jpg

There are several more shown in other galleries also. When I copied jlrussell's :D I made the chisel insert a little loose so I could turn it to get the best angle for driving the tuck back into itself. I got that tip from Wray. :D

If your tucks were collapsing well when you started and have gotten harder, try planishing the bowl to free up the metal.

[Wally8]

Thanks Ralph. That's what I was looking for. I saw some other hammers like that too. Guess I'll have to get the grinder out again :)

I need to make some real tucking points too. Right now I'm just using a set of cheap needle nose pliers that I took the grinder to.

So I assume I'm supposed to hit one side of the tuck to drive it straight into the other side of the tuck, right? Does that explanation make sense?


Jeff

[Boogiemanz1]

Hello Jeff, Welcome to Metalmeet.

I think Wray uses several hammers to tuck. The one he was using to tuck steel at MM03 was called a "door skin hammer", and it was modified. A hammer with a thin enlongated head of sufficient heft to move the material your working on, is a general answer.

Some guys use a blunt chisel shape head on their tucking hammers. The big deal is to be able to drive the metal into itself. You capture it, hit on both sides and work up the tuck just like the diagram shows. Your hits should not just direct the metal down, but into the tuck as well.

Sounds as if you have done the hardest step, getting off the couch and beating on some metal, every thing you learn from this point forward will just enhance that ability and make it easier......as long as you are still working at it............just have fun......john

[ralph]

Jeff wrote:

So I assume I'm supposed to hit one side of the tuck to drive it straight into the other side of the tuck, right?

Look on page one of this post. Wray has posted a tuck shrinking diagram there. :) You start at the narrow end of the tuck and alternate sides, locking in the tuck with blows to the back.

John wrote:

Sounds as if you have done the hardest step, getting off the couch and beating on some metal:idea:

John,
Where have I heard that before :?: :lol:
That's the first step of metalforming isn't it :?:
Excellent advice. :!:

[Boogiemanz1]

Thanks Ralph, that is the hardest step for sure. I love the enthusiasm that some of these guys have!...........john

[Wally8]

Thanks guys. That helps.

I understand Wray's diagram, I'm just trying to understand the vector of the blows. Getting the right profile on my hammer should help a lot.

I'll give it another shot tomorrow hopefully.


Jeff

[Dustin Engstrom]

Hello,

I'm about to undertake my first metal forming project. A rear motorcycle fender. From the days I've spent reading the excellent posts in this forum I've learned that I will need to stretch the middle of the sheet to form a bowl and then tuck the sides to create a compound curve.

I'm still a little unclear on the tucking process though. :oops: What does the tucking tool shown above do & how is it used (ie. Is it hit with another tool? What angle of strike is used?, etc).

Thanks,
Dustin

[Wray Schelin]

Hi Dustin,


Welcome to MetalMeet . :D

Watch these helve hammer videos and it will show you how to crush a tuck and what a tuck looks like.

click here:

http://www.metalmeet.com/photopost/showgallery.php?cat=3094


Wray

[ralph]

Dustin Wrote:
What does the tucking tool shown above do & how is it used (ie. Is it hit with another tool? What angle of strike is used?, etc).


Dustin, The metal goes between the tines on the tucking tool. You twist the handle one way and then the other to raise the tuck. For a fender put several tucks close together near the center of the length and on both sides of the width. This will start drawing the fender to the 'U' shape you want. Hammer the tucks with a chisel nosed hammer to shrink the sides. This is best done on a piece of semi hard material, like a piece of UHMW, a rubber hunk or even a block of wood. After you've shrunk the sides, you can hammer the center with a round faced hammer to stretch the center. This is best done on a softer surface like a forming bag.

In hammering tucks, follow the patten shown. You are trying to drive the metal into itself, so your blows should be angled to the center of the raised portion of the tuck. Work from the edge to the center and lock the tuck in with a blow at the small part of the nose.

After your initial go around you raise more tucks and stretch more in the center to get your shape. When the metal gets hard to move, planish it and it will soften right up. When you get tired, take some pictures and post them and ask for more help.

Happy hammering

[Jason93]

I finished my tucking tool last night and it came out ok. The only problem I am having is when I make the tuck it doesnt look like the ones wray made. Instead it looks like I made a rectangular tuck instead of a triangle shaped one. You know the blow pattern that is shown in this post, where you start the blows is kind of a point and that gradually gets wider as it goes out to the edge of the panel. My tucks are just the same length all the way through and I know I'm not getting it the way it should be. Also I cant remember the side I want to make the tuck on. Lets say for example I am making a the top panel to a gas tank, so when I put the crush in, the crush sticks up off the top of the panel, or do I want it the other way so the tuck is on the bottom side of the panel. I know this is an easy question, but I have been pounding metal till 2am this morning.. and I think I'm fried. This metal stuff is addicting. thanks for helping out the slow learning novice again:)

[Kerry Pinkerton]

Without seeing a photo of your tucking tool, it's difficult to pin down what is happening. However, I suspect your taper it not enough which forces your tuck to be 'square'. Ortherwise you just need to hold the metal (or the tool) so it comes in.

Regarding which side your tuck comes out on is simply a matter of which way you twist. You have to think about it before you twist and it's backwards to your intuition.

A trick I've discovered (probably not new but new to me) that helps is after making the tuck I move the metal out to the very end of the tines and really close it in. This seems to make trapping the end of the metal much easier.

[Jason93]

Kerry, that makes sense, though the tines on the end look good. I'll try and post them tonight. One real stupid question, back to my example about making the top panel of a gas tank, if I want the edges to come down which way does the tuck go? Up or down? Lets say I put it in the bottom, then I hammer the tuck down from the inside of the panel per say right? The tuck or bulge out in the metal should be on the bottom or the underside in order to pull the metal down and help the contour right?

[Kerry Pinkerton]

Direction of the tuck is only important from which way is easiest for you to work. Once it's crushed, it's the same either way. MOST folks find it easier for the tuck to be toward the inside of the shape. For instance, in a bowl shape, the tuck would be up inside the bowl. Be sure and crimp in the ends of the tuck so the 'bubble' can't escape as you are crushing it. However, be careful not to bend the metal over. If you do, it's scrap and you have to start over because it will crack at the bend line.

[snotzalot]

It sounds like he isn't off setting the tool to the left and right as he twists.

[Kerry Pinkerton]

Following are some photos of our bag stands and a brief tutorial in shrinking via tuck shrinking.

This is the bag stand we developed. It is based on what we made at Randys for MM03. We used a 20" disk blade for the bottom and a 18 for the top. 16" would also work. One difference is that we built in a couple tool holders. The tool holders are based on 2 1/2" square tubing and accept 2" receiver stock. One goes out and one up. The round tubing is cut and the larger tubing is welded in the slot and to the back side of the upright tube.

http://www.metalmeet.com/members/pinkertonk/ImperialAccessories/stand.jpg

This is the new tucking tool we've developed. It's based on a couple Harbor Freight pry bars. They are cut in half and the ends rounded. Then they are welded inside 2" tubing with about a 1/8" gap between the tapers. These have worked great at both Dutchs meet and Syracuse. At Syracuse, we had two sets and Dutch was using one and us the other. I did not realize how much Dutch was using it because he also had the "T" shaped tucking tool he made some years back. However, when we sold the stand and tucking tool that he had been using, he said, "You sold my tucking tool.." and promply began using the other. I thing the moral of this story is that mounting the tucking tool is pretty effective. It certainly is easier for me to just work the metal around the tool than vice versa. I need a couple more arms to use the "T" style.


http://www.metalmeet.com/members/pinkertonk/ImperialAccessories/tucking-tool.jpg

My son Kris, cracked the code on tuck shrinking up at Syracuse. Here he is working the metal in the tucking tool to make the initial tuck. Twist first one way, then slip the metal to the other side of the tuck and twist the other. We find that it's easier if the tuck is to the inside of the shape so it will lay on your planishing surface better. However, if you have surfaces that allow you to get a good hit from the other side, it works just as well.

http://www.metalmeet.com/members/pinkertonk/ImperialAccessories/makingtucks.jpg


http://www.metalmeet.com/members/pinkertonk/ImperialAccessories/closingmouth1.jpg

At Carlisle I learned a trick from Dutch that helped me master this technique. That trick is to close the end of the tuck so it just doesn't flatten back out.

For me one thing that seems to work is to use the very tip of the tucking tool to help start closing the end of the tuck.


http://www.metalmeet.com/members/pinkertonk/ImperialAccessories/initial-tuck.jpg


http://www.metalmeet.com/members/pinkertonk/ImperialAccessories/closingmouth2.jpg

Then, over a hard surface such as wood, plastic, or metal you can tap the very end a couple times to close the end up like this. What you have to be careful of is not folding the metal over. If you do it's scrap!

http://www.metalmeet.com/members/pinkertonk/ImperialAccessories/closing-the-rat-hole.jpg

Then the bubble is crushed down from the back toward the front in a herringbone pattern resulting in this which is ready to be wheeled.

http://www.metalmeet.com/members/pinkertonk/ImperialAccessories/crushed.jpg

Metal will shrink as easily as it will stretch. The secret is to contain the tuck so the metal has no where to go but into itself. When you stretch metal into a sandbag, the metal spreads out and thins, when you drive the bubble down, it drives into itself and get's thicker. In the last photo, if you look CAREFULLY, you can see traces of previous tucks that have been wheeled nearly away. It's not necessary to completely wheel away all traces of previous tucks before doing the next series of stretching and shrinking. Plus, since stretching and tuck shrinking is a repetitive process, it's easier to just knock the stretch lumps and tuck lumps down and do the next round. Every once in a while, you need to wheel the whole panel for a while to relax the metal and relieve the stresses that all the shaping has caused. When it seems to be getting stiff and hard to work, WHEEL!

With a sandbag, couple homemade hammers and a tucking tool, block of wood or plastic, and an Ewheel, you can make most ANYTHING!

[tdoty]

Great info there Kerry!!!!

My tucks are done by hand and tend to be a bit smaller, so there's a bunch of them! Still working up the nerve to post some pics of a fender I made last week. The fender is aluminum and quite a bit smaller than the motorcycle guys are used too - it was made for a bicycle chopper I built for my sons. Unfortunately, their visit was short and I didn't have time to get the fender done AND finish the bike. The paint job took longer than I expected :lol:

Basically a long winded way of saying that tuck shrinking works great! My tucking tools are made from pry bars as well, but have T- handles on them. Gonna have to look into making a mounted tucker too! Great idea on that one Kerry, and good looking stand too!

Tim D.

[Jason93]

Kerry,

Excellent info there and that will help a lot. Thanks too Snotzalot for the help. Kerry do you sell those bags and tucking tools? If so let me know. I think one of the things I was doing wrong or not enough of was I was turning the tool one way then in the exact position turning it the other way without moving or angling it, therefore I think it was giving me the rectangular tuck instead of the triangle style one.

[Kerry Pinkerton]

Yes we sell the bags and tucking tools. However, the bags can be purchased off the internet or from Wray, Jerry Gully, and others for the same price. I don't know of anyone else who makes tucking tools.

Email me privately for more info. I don't want to get too commercial on the site.

[snotzalot]

Kerry,

I think one of the things I was doing wrong or not enough of was I was turning the tool one way then in the exact position turning it the other way without moving or angling it, therefore I think it was giving me the rectangular tuck instead of the triangle style one.

Bingo!

[Jeff Parker]

Hey Kerry! Could you post a pic of that aluminum mallet you had at Dutch's (and The Syracuse Nationals) ?

Thanks,
Jeff

[BigBadBob]

If you want to make some cheap tucking tools and you live near a Harbor Freight retail store, the 4 pc sets of solid pry bars are on
sale for $4.99 through the 30th. For 10 bucks you can make 4
tucking tools. I got mine on Sunday.

BigBadBob AKA Bob Schutte

[chadwick]

excellent explanation on tucking thanks :D :D

[novice_kid]

http://www.metalmeet.com/photopost/data/3001/4shrinkpattern-med.JPG?3935

Wray,
I hope this isn't too stupid of a question, most of the tucks anyone would do are pretty small... how do I follow the directions when the hammer head is larger than the tuck? Also, how can I hit it like that, without hitting the same spot every second time?
Thanks!

[r.w.dewar]

The face of the hammer will be rounded, so, the most force will be applied by the center of the face. Make a few tucks and hammer in the pattern shown, watch were the metal moves and you will see it is compressing into itself. I find when you make a few tucks, rather than trying one at a time, they will tend to trap each other. If you don't have a hammer with a smaller face ,try the ball end of a ball pean hammer. Bob.

[Gene_Olson]

Steve,
On a small tuck you may only work your way through the first dozen hits of the pattern.
Also sometimes on a small tuck, closing the end first works better.
Don Hammer, who showed me how just days before I met Wray, always twisted in the tuck and then trapped the end before starting the same sort of pattern Wray shows.
As noted several places here, that is largely a matter of personal preference. If you find the tuck keeps opening up on you, try locking the open end first.

G.

[novice_kid]

Okay I understand now..I forgot about the round-faced hammer.
Thanks!

[custommachines]

alright, lets respond to this ages old thread :)

thing is, ive been reading up here on and off now since '06 but never really got to it to actually post sth.

but now.. i have a problem involving tuck shrinking. never done this before so NOOB in full affect.

i have to make a fender inside a fender (almost sounds as good as pimp my ride :D)

the fender:

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c62/cm81/IMG-20120614-01350.jpg

i read somehwere to overdimension your plate, so i did. and to prebend it.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c62/cm81/IMG-20120614-01351.jpg

i made a tucking fork real quick from pictures i had in my head for years.. the gap between the forks is a little big but should work right?!
and i started to bend some. (hope i'm doing it right)

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c62/cm81/IMG-20120614-01358.jpg

and i started watching the vids of Captain kirk on youtube. and also ran into this one

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJFNFpmJEyw&feature=related

now the interesting part is he does it the other way then the picture that is seen in this thread with the sequence of hammering.

excuse me? what am i missing.

[kit]

.excuse me? what am i missing.

Nothing, there is no one way, it's whatever works for you.
Personally, from where you are now I would partialy reinsert your fork and bring each tuck up more towards a central point at it's outboard end, not a complete point,then tap over the end to lock the tuck in the sheet, clamping either side of the tuck onto an imovable object with a couple of wrenches really speeds the process up by stopping the tuck flatening back into the sheet, I use various curved lengths of steel to match the profile of the sheet, then I would hammer from the outside inwards.

[custommachines]

thanks! i will try this method.
with various curved lengths you mean the surface underneath the piece? or the curve of the hammerhead?

[kit]

Just curved to come close to the shape already in the sheet, yes the surface under the sheet, to minimise the distortion that clamping to a flat would cause, it only needs to be the width of just over one tuck.
With the tucks as close together as you have you might need to use a spacer on the top side so the clamp clears the tuck, a piece of rod or radiused 6mm strip.

[AndersK]

Jan, do yourself a favour and make a stump. (assuming you have read about stump shrinking if you have lurked since -06 :D)

For that kind of shrinking its far more easier to hammer out the tucks on the stump when one is new to it.

Your fork looks fine and so does the tucks. Dont make them too steep since they can fold over themself. If that happens you'll be back to pie-cutting and welding....

I made my fork almost the samre but the handle is 90 degrees turned. and slightly curved. Fits better in the hand that way (my opinion, not necessarily truth to everyone)

/Anders

[kit]

Here is a usefull tool for getting the outer end of the tuck to the shape you want it, it's made from a wheel wrench which is quite hard steel, slit is made with a grinder.

http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=14&pictureid=8207

An easy way of making the curved strip to clamp under the tuck is to cut a section from tube, then open it to the radius of your work piece by crushing it in a vise. Make sure you use soft jaws on the vise or grind off any jaw prints so you dont transfer those to the work.

[shortbus]

Wouldn't it also be better to do fewer tucks at a time? With the tucks so close together while closing one it tends to open the ones on either side. Just the way I do it, not sure how others approach it.

cary

[jlrussell4]

Hi Cary,

I was always told that putting in a row of tucks would help lock the tucks in the middle of the row of tucks. It does seem to help a bit.