Interior garnish molding

[Randy Ferguson]

This is a piece that I have tried to make in one piece with four different sheet metal brakes including a press brake and a box/pan brake. There's just too much going on in such a small area to get it to work out. Perhaps there are some tricks out there that someone could share on a part like this. I'm going to make it in two pieces and join them together with a tig weld to get these suckers done. I assume the original pieces were made with a roll former??

http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=195&pictureid=2682

http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=195&pictureid=2686


http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=195&pictureid=2685



http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=195&pictureid=2684

[oldgoaly]

Couple of questions, what gauge of metal? does it need to be exactly that shape? or can it be appearance correct? Read this thread on the Hamb and it may work for you! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=376591

[redhumphries]

Hi randy hope all is going well for you have you tried one of the magna breaks I think I spelled that right I have a friend here that is trying to sell me one I know you can fold metal back on itself almost. Just wondering RED

[bobadame]

How long do the pieces need to be?

[Dick]

if the part is not too long for a Press brake
it can be done in 4 major steps
the first step is the 2 bends on each end
6496
step 2 is the hem which depending on your tooling can be done in 2 or 3 hits
6497
step 3 is the biggest hurdle
the arc is not constant and has to be done in small steps
lots of small bumps
6498
step 4 is the last bend
6499

i suppose 2 pcs welded would be easier
but you still have the arc to fight
6500

[Randy Ferguson]

Dick,

That is exactly where I was planning to weld it. I do have a press brake, but very little tooling.

I do have a good selection of tooling for my english wheel though, so making the arc isn't a problem.

These pieces need to be 8' long, but I'm making them 4' and will just have an extra weld, which isn't a big deal.

[anders nørgaard]

Hmm... Randy, is the molding around 1-1/4" x 9/16?
Drawing technique looks interesting and maybe a couple of the fab stages could be done in a brake. Would cut down on "die building time" :rolleyes: :D

[Bill Gibson]

When I have to make something like this, I think of the power hammer as a short press brake that you can feed long stuff into. It's pretty easy to saw out tooling that is only 3/4 inch long, from 3/4 inch material. Make the different stages of tooling, then feed it through in stages. Kind of like a cross between a press brake and roll forming.
I hope that made sense.

[tdoty]

Looks pretty similar to the drip rails that were discussed here some time back. Yes, the drawing bench looks like a good option.

Dutch suggested making the drip rails on a Pullmax....says it's easy.

Tim D.

[Doug98105]

As Dick pointed out the curve is variable radius, standard press dies require multiple hits to approximate the shape.

I've made custom shaped press brake dies for parts with unusual shapes. They can be made of aluminum or wood using carbide router bits.

The lower die is soft rubber or urethane which causes the material to wrap around the upper die.

The die shown is the only picture I have, it's an old die used for creating a large radius in light gage material.

http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=3&pictureid=2697


Doug

[godspeed]

You might try creating the bends and then setting the final curve in a 90degree block
6503
As you hammer down the curve should form itself.. It may not be a repeatable form:confused:
Forgive me that looks bad.

[MP&C]

Randy, the two "tails" on the inside, do they rest against something as a stop i.e. are they absolutely necessary? It would be much easier if the top one could be a simple hemmed edge otherwise.... and a spacer on the back side with the hardware could keep from distorting the trim from over tightening.

[Randy Ferguson]

Not in one piece like I was hoping, but at least it worked.

We ended up segment bending on the 8' brake to take care of 2 bends and the roll. A little touch up in the english wheel with soft tooling took care of some minor tweaking to get the contour just right. Then the angle piece was bent and tig welded right along the edge where it's shown in Dick's drawing.

Now all that's left is bending them into the right shape to fit the doors.

Thank you for all the ideas.

http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=195&pictureid=2725


http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=195&pictureid=2723


http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=195&pictureid=2724

[Jeff Parker]

Nice!!! How on earth are you going to bend them with all that shape?

[rcnut223]

I would love too see you bend them to shape as well. I need to make a set for my 32 Ford 5 window

[Randy Ferguson]

First try bending was a failure. It was going well until I tried to give it a bit much at once and kinked it.

I'm going to get some Cerrobend to see how that helps. http://www.hitechalloys.com/hitechalloys_005.htm

[Richard K]

Just a thought. Take a piece of UHMW plastic or any flexible plastic, carve it to a close fit inside, stuff it in the benda area, bend trim and plastic, pull ou the plastic "mandrel"

Might work?

[Carbuilder]

Randy do you have a molding picture of the original we could see as a reference to see the over all shape & curve you are trying to make.

[Doug98105]

Randy,

I would try Cerrobend combined with dies that wrap and support the molding. The idea is the dies need to completely support the molding to prevent kinking.

See "the Art of Bending" in this old posting, especially the sections about bending channels:

http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/showthread.php?p=49883


Your bends are probably much larger radius than shown in those instructions. It should give some ideas though. With large sweeping bends the English wheel might do it with the correct dies. I think Jim Bailey (is that his name?) had a setup on his wheel with two lower rolls to curve tubing into a large radius.


Doug

[60 convert]

what if it was bent before welding it together?
Jesse

[bobadame]

Maybe wrap tape around it and pack it full of sand. Cerrobend is a bit pricey. I've done as Richard K suggests with some success.

[Randy Ferguson]

what if it was bent before welding it together?
Jesse

That's how I'm doing it now just to get this job finished. It takes much longer to do it this way though, so I still want to try the Cerrobend method.

This is from the article I posted earlier:

A most valuable development of the use of Cerrobend is in the forming of rolled or extruded sections. The need of complicated rolling machines for this work has been obviated. The procedure is to cast the alloy in a suitable mold completely to embedded the section, and then bend the block of alloy round a former of dimensions allowing for the thickness of alloy surrounding the section. Under these conditions (particularly if the former is grooved exactly to accommodated the cross-section of the alloy block and prevent any cross-sectional distortion), it is impossible for the section to ripple or spread in any direction and perfect bends are achieved.

[60 convert]

I knew it would be tedius getting everything perfect but sometimes you just gotta do it. and learn faster ways when there is time
Jesse

[Gene_Olson]

maybe just plain old wheelweight lead would work.

make a lead mold for the section get the section dirty with some sort of pigment. Jewelers use yellow ochre in a water or alcohol solvent based medium (the part of the paint that sticks) That will keep the lead from sticking, tinning the surface.
The wheel weights often have lots of type metal in them. That makes them stiffer and stronger.

put a tinkers dam in and around the molding at the end of the lead mold pour the lead in, bend the part, melt the lead off.

Obviously, wearing gloves and not overheating the lead are good ideas.

Tinkers dam - a small wad of water based clay used to contain the flow of lead or tin.
I always thought it was funny. Many of you may have heard the expression, "Ain't worth a tinker's dam." a wad of clay, and a used one, dried out, half baked and on the floor is pretty useless. But the tool itself, in the right place. . . . That is worth the whole job, can't do without it.

[TheRodDoc]

Gene,

that is exactly what i used to bend the C shaped belt line molding i made for the 34 willys delivery to bend the 4" radius that goes around the rear of body. i tinned mine so it would stick. thinking it might work better as one part. it did. i tried a JD bender first but the sliding shoe wants to dig into the lead. then i borrowed a bender that uses a follower type die. (a straight channel shape) had to make the dies to fit my cast shape. it worked quite well all in all.

use care melting the lead off for it is easy to over heat part and warp it.
i just wire brushed off the hot lead and left the tinning to be painted over.

i used plain old clay from a spot in my yard for the lead dam. it worked ok.

i should also say that the die should be made from 3 pieces and bolted together so your part will come out of it easily. or make the die channel with tapered sides. and mold to match. made mold from aluminum.

[Doug98105]

Randy,

I don't know if you've told us, but is this a product or a one time deal?

Here are a few ideas for production tooling where no fillers (Cerrobend or lead) would be needed. The rollers and forms, etc would have to be machined to fit the molding.

The fillers would be too much hassle for production work.

http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=3&pictureid=2766

The examples of tooling are for forming aircraft parts. The methods where they use a forming bar might apply to your work. The forming bar is usually much beefier than the part being formed even though it isn't shown that way here.

Doug

[shortbus]

Doug - What book is that from? I love that old time information, stuff like that still works today with out needing every tool in the world.

cary

[Doug98105]

Doug - What book is that from? I love that old time information, stuff like that still works today with out needing every tool in the world.

cary


Cary,

One of my favorite books.

It has a big scary title, but is an easy to read and understand book.

"Forming of Austenitic and Chromium-Nickel Stainless Steels" by George Sachs, 1947.

Doug

[Dawai]

Quite a interesting thread.. challenging.

Richard K's suggestion of a special bender with internal-external dies.
I think.. a couple plastic fillers.. along with a external bending die making tiny sequential bends to make a whole..OR 3-rolling it in special cut rollers to form a contour...

I am confused thou what part of the car this is? interior around the windowframe or exterior drip rail roof edge? Interior? does it have to turn 90s in the window frames?? now.. that will be a challenge.

[shortbus]

Cary,

One of my favorite books.

It has a big scary title, but is an easy to read and understand book.

"Forming of Austenitic and Chromium-Nickel Stainless Steels" by George Sachs, 1947.

Doug


Doug, thanks for the info, I'm going to try and find a copy for my "library". Non of my kids are interested in this stuff so it will all get destroyed when I die, but I enjoy it.

Thanks, cary

PS, just found a copy on Amazon.com for $16.00 including shipping! It's a second edition from 1948, same vintage as me : )

Thanks again, cary