Body soldering

[KIRT GRAVES]

hey guys i spent 30 years in body shop and never had the opportunity to do any lead work. now i'm building a car from scratch and would like to lead the seams was hoping for some old school advise. I have all the proper tools needed paddles,files,lard, ruby fluid, 70/30 lead,oaty 95 tinning paste,propane or accetalyne dillon, torch just need some coaching I'll try to attach some photos didn't work''

[oldgoaly]

Hi Kirt! Welcome to the group! Sounds like you have everything you need to lead! Like almost everything you need to practice and practice some more! As far as "old school magic" take a look a Bill Hines' videos on youtude it don't get much better "old school" than Bill! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQ_85fp1avs&feature=channel there are few listed on the right, Enjoy! tt

[CARS]

Welcome Kirt!!!

Terry gave great advise about practice, practice, etc. Lead is an art form.

However, only use it when you have to. Quarters to rockers and roofs are great examples.

Whenever I am near it after a dozen years of occasionally using it (like Mike's demo in Oblong) I can actually taste it. I have been sensitized to it :x

Why do yo think Bill filters it through a cigar???? :confused:

[Carbuilder]

Any one know where to get the stay klean ( spelling might be wrong)acid.

[KIRT GRAVES]

still not sure of exact procedures really concernd about addheison whats the stay klean for

[oldgoaly]

Dan,
I believe Harris (solder mfg) owns it distributes now thru mostly in plumbing & hvac sellers. tt (ps I got side tracked on the tinning butter will be getting on the case again soon)

[oldgoaly]

Kirt,
making it stick is all about cleaning, what is on the metal? new metal? probably only finger prints and the oil coating to keep sheets from sticking. I've used cheap laquer thinner and clean rag, a very skilled metal craftsman Rick Mullin uses acetone w/ clean rag. Hope this helps! if not ask again. tt

[Henry Votel]

Hi Kirt,

We had a GOM MetalMeet a few years ago in Minnesota and Don Hammer did 18 YouTubes on his lead soldering techniques. A little noisy, but very detailed videos. FYI:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b76gpzVWpfA

Henry Votel
Forest Lake, MN

[KIRT GRAVES]

yea i've seen the videos and were helpful and have been playing with scrap. body is made from 18ga and is all new metal during trials was able to peel solder off after bending a little bit that why i'm concernd about adheision

[oldgoaly]

Kirt, two things come to mind one metal not clean no bonding to metal and metal not hot enough solder too hot.
Henry, Those are good videos I have them downloaded and saved on my computer, just did not remember, Thanks for bringing them up! Maybe we can get Don's permission and link them to this site in a sticky. Making them easier to find here (are the admins listening????) tt

[CARS]

Kirt I just took the time to look at your album. That is going to be a great looking car! I hope my earlier post doesn't discourage you from leading. I just wanted to say that you should have the same protection/ventilation as you would with plastic fillers and paints.

I learned to lead from the DVD that came with my Eastwood starter kit.

[oldgoaly]

Kirt!

Cool car! You might start a thread in the scratch built car subforum to document your build, and answer questions about what components and experience while building it.
here is a link to Kirt's album http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/album.php?albumid=234

[KIRT GRAVES]

thanks guys for the helpful tips i think you might be right oldgoaly about the heat going to try again tomorrow night been working on the car 5yrs no need to get in a hurry now thanks for the welcome. i was a member back in 08 but went to log on and was not able to has the site changed? used to have early photos of the car on the site can't find them ether

[Rick Mullin]

Hi Kirt,
The tinning solution that I use is from Barbee Co in Louisville Kentucky. The metal must be cleaned thoroughly. I use 180 on a 3" angle grinder followed by a Scotch-Brite Roloc. Clean area with acetone. Apply tinning solution. Warm area. Heat bar of lead and panel simultaneously and apply a small amount of bar solder to surface. Heat and wipe solder out a thin coating onto the surface of the panel using a clean white cotton rag. Allow to cool and wash surface with clean water to remove tinning solution. Warm area again. Watch for the tinned surface to begin to melt and apply thin pre-warmed bar of solder in a slight scrubbing motion to be assured of adhesion to the tinned surface. Paddle the solder out moving up hill to avoid entrapment of bees wax. File smooth and pin hole any areas with mini oxy-acet torch. Never grind solder. A body files in actually faster than a grinder and it does not put out the toxic dust.

Hope this helped.

J and I have been working on a soldering tutorial with the thought of entering it into the Baliegh contest but time just is a short commodity for both of us. We will post it when it is finished.

Rick

[KIRT GRAVES]

great advise rick thanks is the tinning solution paste or liquid? and is tinning butter nessasary

[oldgoaly]

Rick uses a liquid, we were discussing a leading problem I was having, with leading a crease. I am using a liquid flux but had learned with tinning butter. It's more of an application problem, with tinning butter one would clean and prep the the seam or dent apply the butter to the whole seam /dent, heat and tin the whole seam in basically one pass. With the liquid, apply only 4-8" section, then add heat and solder to tin. reapply flux and tin another section. I didn't have any problems with a small seam or dent. The flux is evaporating before I can tin the larger spots. So I'm looking into getting tinning butter see if that doesn't help me along. in 1973 was when I learned leading in high school auto shop (it was an elite school with shop classes) since then the right shoulder has worn out keeping the heat moving properly is a problem. A few bad habits may have developed from soldering galvanized drain pans over the last 35 years. There are more than one way to skin a cat or a door, but if you listen to Rick.... did I mention he is good!!!! real good!!!! ;)

[KIRT GRAVES]

hey guy's thanks for all the help i played with the solder last night getting the metal to the proper temp is pretty critical i think i can do this appreciate the tips