Build a Louver Press 101

[scootermcrad]

Unfortunately, I'm not the teacher of this class, but I've been searching through Metalmeet (post imploded version) for info on what it takes to build one and found only a handful of threads. So, I thought I would start a new thread with the hopes of learning about these useful machines and some construction techniques from the pros who've built them and/or use them.

I've been thinking very seriously about building one. I see kits available, but since I'm a tinkering kind of guy, and learn by doing, I think I would like to build one from scratch. Dies and all. At least that's how I feel right now! :rolleyes::eek::D

So here's my thoughts on what a person who wants to build one should know:

1) How and why the machine works
2) Die construction, materials, design, shape, etc...
3) Chassis materials, shape, and general construction
4) Actuating solutions (manual vs. hydraulic)
5) Designs and examples.

So let's hear what you experts have to say about building one of these machines. What can you input from the above topics I mentioned?

I appreciate anything you guys can add!

Thanks!
Scott

[scootermcrad]

This is one of the most inspirational "hobby size", home built louver press machines I have ever seen! It was built by Kiwi Kev, of Ventura, California...

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m79/kiwikevinp/IMG_2085.jpg

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m79/kiwikevinp/IMG_2062.jpg

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m79/kiwikevinp/IMG_2090.jpg

Started life as a band or a large recipricating saw of some kind...

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m79/kiwikevinp/IMG_1121.jpg

Another machine that I see pop up pretty frequently as a home built is Metalmeets very own Mike Rouse... (http://rousecustomfabrication.com/equipment.html)

http://rousecustomfabrication.com/images/eq_louver_press_ewheel.jpg

He made everything from scratch as well.

Then there's the more typical designs I see out there that are a tube construction... (found this picture on the internet somewhere)

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d153/illblazer/Random/DSC00186.jpg

Each one useful depending on the type of work to be done.

[scootermcrad]

For myself, I'm more interested in making dies and the actuating system myself, however this thread is for the masses and not just myself, so here's some kits I've seen for heads...

http://mittlerbros.com/louver-press-kit.php

And for the hobby level, a hand operated head from low-buck. These are sold with the more traditional looking domed style louver dies.

http://www.lowbucktools.com/MM6.html

[RobC]

Kev's machine started life as an industrial bandsaw. It looks cool but I think the throat depth may be limiting at times.

Scratch's pinstriping helps along the asthetics too. Kev has quite a few machines built from portions of other older gear that's been adapted for modern use.

Good idea to revive yet another thread. Somewhere here I still have the CAD plan I drew up for a large frame press.

FWIW those three links to head kits are all the Mittler brothers units.

Cheers,
Rob

[scootermcrad]

Kev's machine started life as an industrial bandsaw. It looks cool but I think the throat depth may be limiting at times.

Scratch's pinstriping helps along the asthetics too. Kev has quite a few machines built from portions of other older gear that's been adapted for modern use.

Good idea to revive yet another thread. Somewhere here I still have the CAD plan I drew up for a large frame press.

FWIW those three links to head kits are all the Mittler brothers units.

Cheers,
Rob

D'oh! Thanks for the heads up on the links. Didn't catch they were all MB's. Thanks! I'll edit that...

Yeah, I think it's a good topic. Figured one might as well be started that could be sort of an "all-inclusive", "one stop shop" type of thread, directed towards someone interested in building one from scratch. I know I can't be the only one that thinks it would be good to have one in the shop! :D

[scootermcrad]

Okay... guess I'll ask specifics. How about the actuating ram.

If one were to decide to use a hydraulic ram to do the job, what would be recommended? I'm sure Grainger, McMaster Carr, or any other local shop that carries hydraulics would have something that would fit the bill NEW, but what would a person look for? I know very little about what's available out there. What about the hydraulic system itself? I assume there needs to be a pump and of course a way to activate it (i.e. foot pedal).

How about Pneumatic rams? Would be pretty conveniant to use something using compressed air. I have an air-over hydraulic ram on my tubing bender and it works great, but is sort of slow to actuate.

How much throw does the machine need and how should it be set-up on the machine as not to damage the cylinder once it has reached its limits?

[RobC]

I have a hydraulic ram for mine, it's a 50mm (2") bore and from what I have read both here and elsewhere, will be adequate.

The Mittler kits (from memory) recommend a ten ton ram. From that figure it's a simple calculation of pressure X area for any given ram. I have gone for a long stroke ram to give me clear area when loading the job into the press.

I think an air setup may be a hassle unless you have an industrial setup and then there's the exhaust air noise to deal with. Ebay netted me the whole mains powered hydraulic power pack include quick release fittings and ram for $A360.

Cheers,
Rob

[kit]

As I see it, a dedicated louver press is a big floor space issue as it won't get a lot of use for most of us.
Forming louvers by tooling up an existing machine is another approach.
If you have, or are going to get a recipricating machine, use a Pullmax style louver tool on that.
Adapting an engine crane, just like the one sitting next to the old band saw frame in one of the the photos you posted, to have a guided way tool stamping onto a bolt on pedistal would work just as well, put an end stop on it and pull it down with a long pole, a ratchet strap, use a screw thread, bolt on some hydraulics, or off course that old favourite, hit it with a large hammer.

[godspeed]

for the ram you could use a porta-power.. You can get the rams for little to nothin and they'll push 20tons.

[BarryA]

..........or off course that old favourite, hit it with a large hammer.

Or refine that just a little........ala Stan Lobitz:D
http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=163&highlight=lobitz%5C

and the smaller version:
http://www.********shaping.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1031&d=1248314483

[Tony Sanchez]

---Here is a photo of Stan's louver press.

5125

[bobadame]

A louver press is one of the tools on my " someday list". I guess some things that I would think about building in would be enough throat to reach to the end of a large hood such as a 49 Merc. I suppose that would mean nearly 4' of throat. While I love the look of Kiwi's machine, I'd want more space. Also I'd love to have that machine as a band saw. Another thing to build in would be the option of indexing the tooling in 90 degree increments in case I needed even more reach. The frame would be made up from box sections of either square or rectangular steel tube as in one of the first pictures that you posted. Not a lot of style there but good stiffness/$. The ideal hydraulic control would be a system that normally keeps the punch in the raised position with a foot switch that causes the punch to come down and then automaticly raises the punch when released. Maybe something sourced from a small trash compactor. I'd want a relief valve in a convenient position so to be able to set the force needed to set the shape of the louver. Then maybe a laser with a splitter lens to line up with a line marked on the panel. Also a couple of pantograph style side supports to help position the panel.

[cbass139]

ignore this post, I didnt read the whole thing or didnt see the part about indexing 90 degrees. Just thought that would make it so you didnt have to have such a big throat but I guess you are making things 8' long, now I would love to see what you are building that needs that. :)

[bobadame]

I'm working on a bus, you never know. I would rather build in enough throat to do a large hood without having to re-position and re-adjust the dies to complete the hood. I mention the indexing option in case someone would rather build a smaller machine.

[cbass139]

I can see your need for the longer throat, what kind of bus is it?

[bobadame]

The bus is an old Flxible Clipper. There is supposed to be a louvered sheet metal panel below the engine which is behind the rear axle. Its purpose is to keep air from entering the engine compartment from below so that hot air can be pushed out by the engine fan.

[cbass139]

Thats a big bus, you making it into a touring bus?

[route56wingnut]

A louver press is one of the tools on my " someday list". I guess some things that I would think about building in would be enough throat to reach to the end of a large hood such as a 49 Merc. I suppose that would mean nearly 4' of throat. While I love the look of Kiwi's machine, I'd want more space. Also I'd love to have that machine as a band saw. Another thing to build in would be the option of indexing the tooling in 90 degree increments in case I needed even more reach. The frame would be made up from box sections of either square or rectangular steel tube as in one of the first pictures that you posted. Not a lot of style there but good stiffness/$. The ideal hydraulic control would be a system that normally keeps the punch in the raised position with a foot switch that causes the punch to come down and then automaticly raises the punch when released. Maybe something sourced from a small trash compactor. I'd want a relief valve in a convenient position so to be able to set the force needed to set the shape of the louver. Then maybe a laser with a splitter lens to line up with a line marked on the panel. Also a couple of pantograph style side supports to help position the panel.

The lazer thing sounds good,but you might want to check out the way I have mine set up with 4 datum points to go by.After I have established a perfect center ,I line up my first row of louvers.When that is done I take the panel and reference lines every 3 rows parallel to that line and I have excelent reference lines to make for a real straight set of louvers.The reason I do thi every 3 rows is to make sure I am not getting off track,which you can easily make adjustments and not be able to tell.

[bobadame]

That is a really good way to line things up. I happen to have a bunch of little Bimba air cylinders. Thanks for the tip.

[kit]

Very impressive and well sorted set up!

[jlrussell4]

Wow. That's a great set of pictures Dan. Thanks for posting them.

[RobC]

Further to the air cylinder idea, I was flipping through a Von Dutch book (Sundays with Von Dutch) at a store this afternoon and came across a louver press he built with just that.

The press was similar to Scratch's one in its frame, even had Von Dutch's pinstriping and a louvered panel on the body though the dies were at 90' to the norm.

The air cylinder appeared to be 8" ID minimum and used a knuckle arrangement to increase die pressure much the same as some smaller hand operated machines do.

If I'd thought I would have taken a pic on my phone, maybe next time.

Incidentally, this is not the press that was sold at auction for around $US11,500.

Cheers,
Rob

[scootermcrad]

Wow! Been away for a few days and this thread has grown quite a bit!

I love the indexing pointers shown! I think that is a great idea!

I talked to Kiwi Kev last week regarding his press and he said the throat depth hasn't been a problem yet. He is able to index his dies/ram 90 degrees in the chassis so he can do unlimited depth. Seems like a great idea.

I also have been chatting with a few people regarding dies. Specifically the female side. It seems that a simple "D" shaped cutout is fine, VS. a "louver shaped" receiving pocket. Hardening the materials (tool steel seems to also be the norm) and then sharpening is going to be required for continual use. Removable flat side/shearing side of the female die seems common as well. Although not always. Seems to be a good idea for sharpening though.

Anyone actually have a saved picture of Dutch's louver press? I found one ONCE on the internet a long time ago, and for the life of me can't find it again. Also Stan Betz's louver press is probably a good one to take a peek at.

Maybe I'll start playing with some CAD stuff for the dies.

[RobC]

The Von Dutch picture I saw in the book was only a partial image. I posted a pic of his later one that was sold at auction in the other currently active thread here.

There's a great thread of Kiwi's press on the HAMB bulletin board. I'd read elsewhere, possibly here before the crash that running the dies at 90' wasn't recommended and louver shape could be compromised.

Putting some sort of softer buffer material into the female die forces the material to take the exact shape of the male. Left open louvers tun out somewhat more relaxed or rounded.

I've seen both male and female dies with removable cutting edges of tool steel. The sides of the male had to be die ground to suit the louver shape.

Cheers,
Rob

[RobC]

This article and associate pics may help too

http://www.rodandcustommagazine.com/techarticles/0903rc_blundell_speed_metal_machine/index.html

Cheers,
Rob

[scootermcrad]

Putting some sort of softer buffer material into the female die forces the material to take the exact shape of the male. Left open louvers tun out somewhat more relaxed or rounded.

I've seen both male and female dies with removable cutting edges of tool steel. The sides of the male had to be die ground to suit the louver shape.

Cheers,
Rob

Good tip on the softer material! Maybe like a PTFE, or something...