hot rod chassis ???

[marktp1967]

i am interested in using either quarter ellipticals or torsion bars (parallel to the frame rails) on a '29 ford. anyone have experience with mounting the front axle this way? how do you figure what torsion bar to use? any books out there or sites that relate this to hot rods? thanks, mark

[Chassisguy]

I myself have never thought of using torsion bars on an that type of chassis. Are you thinking about using a soild front axle of a split axle? I would think you would want to find a bar setup from a really light vehical. I have the number to a guy in detroit that makes springs. He may would be able to make you a set that would work for you.
A set of torsion bars and a pair of friction shocks would be really different approuch :mrgreen: . I like the idea, sounds real old school. Would also look great on a Rat Rod (my next project for myself :o )

[rsanter]

there are sprint cars that use tortion bars. they aree available in many rates and lenths and are reasonable price. they use a mounting tube and an adjustable end for height/preloading adjustment.
to save weight the sprint cars use a lever arm that just rubs on the axle tube. you will not want to do this. you will want to use a heim link between the lever and the tube.

bob

[Ron G]

Check "Speedway Motors" under sprints and midgets. They show torsion bars and parts. Call them and they may be able to tell you exactly what need. Before you call you're going to need to know the weight of the front end, length of bars, length of arms and several other things I can't think of. LOL

[doug_walter2002]

I am planning on using torsion bars on my 29 model A roadster. I contacted a co. that has a torsion bar kit for their model T chassis and they refered me to Sander eng. WWW.sanderengineering.com They manufacture torsion bars and arms for sprint cars. I haven't contacted them yet but I plan on doing so soon.

[doug_walter2002]

There are some articles in Street Rod Builder Mar 02 and Dec 04 with cars with torsion bar suspensions built by Harry Nicks, Nick's Old Car Specialties
517 Nevada Street. Redlands Ca. 92373 (909) 798 1078
The Boyd Coddington Aluma Tub also has torsion bars, I couln't find The street Rodder article on that one.
Let us know if you find any more info on the setup.

[marioD]

Have a look at http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/ the HAMB is the best rod related forum! There is plenty of information on quarter elliptical axle setups.
Why would you want to use a torsion bar? Every VW Bug has one!

Mario

[KarKrafter]

Dragmaster of Carlsbad, California sold a 23 -25 model T called the "Streetster" in the mid sixties. They were a nice kit. It had a 90" wheelbase. They used tortion bars front and rear. The front end was a tube axle with drag link steering. The front bars were in line with the frame and the rear bars ran cossways behind the rear end. The rear torsion arms were connected to the top of the rear end housing and adjustable arms ran from the bottom of the housing to the frame. The front bars were 36" long and the rear bars were 43" long. The working diameters were (as I recall) about 0.750"dia. However, your car will not be as light as a fiberglass fad T. They used the same length torsion arms front and rear. The set up works best when the torsion arms operate in the range of 15 degrees below and above the horizontal. They used standard Monroe shocks front and rear. Dragmaster is still in buisness, but with new owners. Jim Nelson, his brother, and Dode Martin were the original Dragmasters. Jim was very helpful when I was sorting out the "Streetster". The present owners of Dragmaster might put you in touch with Jim. (760-434-3193) I doubt that they have any parts left. Speedy Bill and his guys at Speedway has a lot of knowledge about the use of torsion bars. You will need to have a good idea of your front and rear sprung weight, the approximate length of your torsion bars and torsion arms (all based on your chassis set up). I suggest you look at some sprint cars. Torsion bars can be a real clean set up. Anothe torsion bar set up that was used was taken from Jags. Make sure that you protect the working diameter of the bars from nicks. The surface of the working diameter is highly stressed when in use. A lot of people will wrap the working surface with electrical tape even if the bars a protected in a tube.

Regards,
Tom

[tdoty]

This posting is a natural product. The slight variations in spelling and grammar enhance its individual character and beauty and in no way are to be considered flaws or defects.:)

Totally off topic, but I love the signature line there Tom!

Tim D.

[Bill B]

Hey Tom,

Thanks for the thoughtful and well sourced post.

I have to agree with Tim; that is a great signature line.

[marktp1967]

thanks to all for your replies,
i seem to remember a guy in california who was building deuce frames with torsion bars. he was running the torsion bars parallel to the frame rails. i think he had to lop off the frame horns at each end but he wound up with a super clean chassis. still don't know if i'll go with bars or quarter ellipticals. my pop's '59 bugeye sprite ran quarter ellipticals for the rear suspension and that thing cornered like a go-kart. i know posies has some stuff for that. thanks again for the posts. mark

[edwardd_]

i am interested in using either quarter ellipticals or torsion bars (parallel to the frame rails) on a '29 ford. anyone have experience with mounting the front axle this way? how do you figure what torsion bar to use? any books out there or sites that relate this to hot rods? thanks, mark

Mark,

Here are a couple of CAD drawing that were produced by George Barnes. I understand several year ago there was a discussion on NTBA (National T Bucket Association) and these were created for that.

http://www.metalmeet.com/photopost/data/500/medium/FramePurple.jpg (http://www.metalmeet.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=19007&size=big&cat=500)


http://www.metalmeet.com/photopost/data/500/medium/Drawing1.jpg (http://www.metalmeet.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=19006&size=big&cat=500)

http://www.homeshopmachinist.net/bbs/showthread.php?t=18963 is a link to the site and the discussion thread.

Paul Van Valkenburgh's book "Race Car Engineering and Mechanics" is listed by George Barnes as a source.

Paul Van Valkenburgh has a web site. He sells the 3rd Ed. there and it is even autographed. I wrote him an email and asked if the CAD drawing were his. He responded quickly and said they were not.

Then I posted on the above thread and George Barnes said he drew them up in 'Inventor" part of SolidWorks CAD.

I looked at NTBA site and it cost $ 35.00 to join. No guarantee the details are still there.

Good luck. I am also interested for the same type of project.

David Edwards

[Boogiemanz1]

One year at the World of Wheels show in Tulsa there was a T-Roadster with the torsion bars inside the front crossmember/spreader bar. The torsion bar sockets looked to be plug welded in the center of the crossmember, then a support on the outside of the frame. It had links from the end of the bars pointing forward and then attached to the top hairpin bracket, I don't remember if it had tube shocks or friction shocks, but it was cleeeean lookin'......................john

[TheRodDoc]

that sounds like what they used for the early 60's dragsters. Those used a volkswagon tortion bar in the front frame tube. one bolt In the center of the frame tube, tightened into the center of the tortion bar to hold it from turning.

[Boogiemanz1]

Could have been Richard, seems like there was a bolt and lock nut on the back side.........john

[KarKrafter]

I posted three pictures of the torsion bar suspension for a Dragmaster "Streetster" T. The pictures are in an album in my photo gallery titled Torsion Bar Suspension. It was a project I worked on thirty years ago. I thought they might help understand one method of many to use torsion bars.

Regards,
Tom

[Boogiemanz1]

Nice pics Tom, how did those cars ride and handle compared to the usual buggy spring suspension?..................john

[KarKrafter]

John,

You are up late. The '27 T in the background of picture 1 used traditional buggy springs front and rear. The springs were lined with teflon to allow them to slip over each other better. It road ok. The torsion bar suspension on the "Streetster" worked better. We changed the diameter of the bars to tune the ride and cornering. Once we got it dialed in it worked like a champ. The original bars were set up for a chev v8, but we used a chev 4 banger with a v8 head. So we had to compensate for the lighter motor. Torsion br suspension on street rods was big for awhile, but I think that coil-over shocks took over. They a easy to set up. To answer your question I think that the torsion bar set up road and handled better than the buggy spring set up.

Regards,
Tom

[Boogiemanz1]

Thanks Tom, I like torsion bars, super adjustable, and usually a nice ride.......john

[edwardd_]

Tom,

The photos were great. I especially enjoyed the catalog page.

Thank you very much for the contribution.

David

[timothale]

A few years ago a guy gave me a t bucket project he bought but didn't do anything with. The stack of paper that came with it said morris minor torsion bars on one of the receipts. the model a frame was hacked up so most of the parts are still up on a rack in the shop. the T bars ran parallel with the frame rails.