Plans for pattern torch

[Infidel]

Does anyone have a pattern torch to look at, or any plans to one. I am not exactly sure how they work so any info would be great.

If at first you don't suceed, get a bigger hammer!

[Dawai]

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[melmackinnon]

Get ahold of George Barnes at most any metalworking site. I bought a set of very complete , quality plans from him for $30 or so and they are worth every cent. Includes full info on building the magnetic tracer.

[mindover]

Dowai, have you got some detals about the pivit point relationships ?

David

[whateg01]

Don't over think it. Make them all the same distance apart and the stylus and torch arms the same length.

Dave

[dmc1]

Whateg01 is right, but I think if pivot-to-tracer and pivot-to-torch lengths are equal, they can be different from pivot-to-pivot lengths and still get 1-to1 reverse copy.

As Dawai says, this is as simple as it gets. But I make too many mistakes without having to deal with a reverse copy, and I'd re-arrange the anchor point to make a 1-to-1 direct copy (google pantograph).

Advantages and disadvantages either way.

Another of too many David's,
Dave Cameron

[whateg01]

If the pivot locations are not spaced the same, the copy will be of a different scale, or a different proportion, depending on which length is changed.

A parallel bar deal like this won't work if you are wanting to make non-mirrored shapes. To do that, you need to have one axis or the other moving linearly, not rotating. Unfortunately, this is something best demonstrated by drawing or by example.

BTW, the mirror thing is not normally a problem, unless one face has a different texture or surface than the other. If you want the stylus to follow something that is facing the right way, flip the workpiece upside down, the flip it back over in use.

And there are not too many of me. In fact, I am still looking for a way to clone myself so I can be at home playing and at work earning money with which to play at the same time.

Dave

[Dawai]

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[dmc1]

Trust me on this, Dave. When I do it , the mirror thing will be a problem.

And you don't need linear slides for a direct copy, the more usual arrangement of anchor and pivots in a pantograph will do this.

Dave

[Dawai]

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[TheRodDoc]

The drawer slide type is just the basics of how my big torch works; Called a gantry type.

A pic of my gantry torch from my manual. Draw with a pencil on white paper and cut parts. Or cut white posterboard pattern with siscors, lay on table and cut parts. Or lay part painted white on table and cut parts. Or black part on white paper on table then cut parts.

8477

Drawing of magnetic tracer torch like I had many years ago.

8478

[Overkill]

Will the motor travel at a fast enough rate to be able to use a plasma cutter?

When making the pattern to follow, how thick does the material need to be so that the magnet can follow it accurately?

As the magnet is one diameter, and the kerf another, what size (over or under) do you need to make the pattern - or do you just always have to figure on grinding a bunch?

Victor used to make one of these, and I've seen plans and kits available for them in the past. However, I've always wondered about how well they'd work.

[Dawai]

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[whateg01]

How well does the magnetic stylus work on inside or complex shapes? (With, of course, the obvious offset required.)

Dave

[TheRodDoc]

the magnetic tracer won't stay on a pattern at plasma speeds. My big torch can cut at plasma speeds up to 300 inches/min.

the patterns work best cut from 14 ga. or thicker. It depends on how accurate the machine was built. And set up level. Also on hoses. how flexible they are. Bearing quality in arms and power of magnet. magnet shaft has to be sharply knurled.

Inside cuts work even better for the magnet wont lose the pattern as easily.

pattern is 1/2 the dia of magnet shaft smaller plus 1/2 the kerf larger then that.

[weldtoride]

Does anyone have a pattern torch to look at, or any plans to one.

I've seen the plans for a motorized flame cutter in this book from Steve Smith Autosports, The Racer's Guide To Fabricating Shop Equipment, they are pretty complete, and there are photos:

http://www.ssapubl.com/product.aspx?nbr=S145

byline says you can build all the tools in the book for $500, that was back in the '80s, obviously.

Mark

[Overkill]

This is a bit off topic, but...

I've seen Heck Trace A Punch's available for reasonable money. I've never had the opportunity to use one, and I'm hoping someone here has. As I understand it, you cut a pattern from any dense material, then simply trace that pattern with the punch, resulting in a single, fairly clean, nibbled out product.

I have a friend that has a nibbling attachment for his Pullmax on the shelf. Next time I get over to his shop, we're going to set it up and give it a try. It uses a punch on the upper, and a die on the lower, and an air connection to blow the nibbled metal out from under the lower die. Doing it in this manner allows the lower die to be adjusted up and down as is normally done with the pullmax, as the nibbled parts don't need to fall all the way through the lower tool holder.

The last time I was looking into the Heck Trace A Punch, I found there is a VFD kit available for the large machine (easier to find than the small machine) that allows it to run on single phase and have variable speeds.

[whateg01]

I think Bob (Tin Head) has one. You might PM him.

Dave

[jlrussell4]

Mr. C - Cary Culpepper has one too.

[mr.c]

I do have a trace-a-punch. I have the smaller single phase 120v machine. I bought it after I had given up on finding a Pullmax. With the outside chance that I could make thumbnail dies to use on the machine. I was able to make thumbnail dies to fit the Heck and they worked great. Quite a few folks here used the machine at Randy's tent meetings.
The T-A-P is also great for what it was designed to do. Short run production and prototyping. I was standing in my driveway waiting for the UPS truck to deliver my machine and one of my neighbors stopped by to see if I could do a job making some prototype pieces for XM Sat. Radio(his employer). I told him that I was going to take delivery of the perfect tool to do the job in just a few minutes. The job paid for the tool many times over.
The pattern can be very thin. Their advertising says that you could use a vinyl sticker for a pattern. The adjustment needs to be perfect to do that. Which leads to another point. The early machine had a hold-down/stripper plate that bolted to the outside of the machine. That is what mine was. The later machines had a foot that mounts to a shaft that can be more finely adjusted. I converted my machine to that type of stripper foot. I made my own. So if you are looking for a trace-a-punch, this is one of the things that you need to check. The larger 3 phase 220v machine has the good foot I believe as well as the later single phase 120v machines.
They are a very powerful machine. My machine is 1 1/2hp and will nibble 3/16" if memory serves me.
I think that it weighs 140 lbs. I can pick it up and put it in my truck to transport to meets. We used to use it to cut round blanks for our Sun'n Fun workshops.
Several other members here have the same machine.
One other thing that I need to mention. The three phase machine is deisigned so that the ram stays in perfect radial alignment. It will not twist. This allows the use of square punch and die sets. The other machines do allow a bit of radial movement which would eat up a square die set in a heart beat.

By the way, I did find and purchase a pullmax shortly after getting the Trace-a-Punch. I looked for year. So the T-A-P is just used when I need something portable.

Any other questions? Just ask.

[Overkill]

Have you made a trace a punch type attachment for your Pullmax?

I've come across some 3PH units - which weigh 500# or more, for reasonable prices. The single phase units tend to sell for more in my experience.

How do they work when using patterns made from card stock or chip board? My concern is that the movement of the punch against the edge of this softer material, would result in an inaccurate result.

They do have a short video of it working on their website:

http://www.heckind.net/Trace-A-Punch.htm

[mr.c]

John: I am missing the part that holds the stripper foot on my P9 so I have not been able to use it for nibbling. I do want to use my Pullmax for nibbling but just haven't had the time to make that part. I have the punches and holders and a stripper foot. I just don't have the part that bolts to the head that holds the stripper foot. I have asked to buy the part from several folks but no one wants to sell it.
I don't see why the Pullmax couldn't be set up to trace a pattern. It is all in the adjustment.

[TheRodDoc]

They work as poorly as any nibbler. Bits dull in a hurry and rough cuts then. And the main reason for not using them is the razor sharp moon shaped chips. Thousands of them. They are dangerous.

You can use a pattern with a hand held nibbler too.

[Tin Head]

They work as poorly as any nibbler. Bits dull in a hurry and rough cuts then. And the main reason for not using them is the razor sharp moon shaped chips. Thousands of them. They are dangerous..

Yep, they make lots of chips but so does my mill and my lathe. Actually the Trace A Punch is setup to help contain the chips as they fall out the bottom die. I've got a plastic bucket under mine to catch them then just dump the bucket.

The thing I don't like about mine is it jumps around. I'm toying with the idea of mounting it to the side of my shear. That's about 800 plus pounds so I'd think the nibbler would stay put. Mine also needs the eccentric adjusted to take out some slop. I use masonite for my patterns. But I don't do production work either.

[mr.c]

Bob: I set mine on some pieces of soft rubber and it stays put. I also use a catcher under my Trace-a-Punch and it catches all of the chips.
The mechanism is a scotch yoke. A crankshaft with a bronze slider.
Something that would be really usefull would be a quick release to drop the lower die, without altering the adjustment, for doing internal nibbling. The XM Radio job had internal cuts and I had to readjust on every piece. If I could just drop the die and insert my pattern and snap it back, it would have been a big time saver.

[hlfuzzball]

For anyone interested in a Trace A Punch, I just listed a heads-up announcement in the Forum.

Item is in Northern Detroit Suburb and is open to offers for a quick sale (moving).

[Tin Head]

Bob: I set mine on some pieces of soft rubber and it stays put. I also use a catcher under my Trace-a-Punch and it catches all of the chips.
The mechanism is a scotch yoke. A crankshaft with a bronze slider.
Something that would be really usefull would be a quick release to drop the lower die, without altering the adjustment, for doing internal nibbling. The XM Radio job had internal cuts and I had to readjust on every piece. If I could just drop the die and insert my pattern and snap it back, it would have been a big time saver.

I got soft rubber mounts on mine as well, but I believe the frame I made is too light in weight. Just 1" tubing legs with a 1 1/2" angle frame under the motor. Probably weighs 25 to 30 lbs. It just jumps around.

I hear ya on the quick release, that would be nice. Have you ever adjusted the scotch yoke? Or is it even possible? Mine has some play in it that I'd like to take out.

I'm thinking through making a manual punch using a toggle link like I've seen on louver presses. I've a need for quite a few oblong #10 holes in some future projects. Most are near the edge, so the throat wouldn't need to be too deep. Most likely would be working with 18 gauge crs, but maybe up to 16 gauge.