Combination shear, brake, roller machines

[jimcaldwell]

I want to get both a brake and slip roller and was wondering about these machines. They are available from a lot of places, but I have been unable to find anything about using them or if they are a worthwhile way to save a bit of space. I would be using them only occasionally. Any information on best brands, etc. would be appreciated.

[docauto]

I started with the little one (36") about 10 years ago and it worked fine for little projects. I did a lot of custom car sheetmetal with that machine. I have the 50" unit now and it again is fine for car mods. If I had the space I would go with a dedicated shear, brake and roller, but this works fine for me.

Mine came from Harbor Freight, but enco has the same unit rebadged. HF puts the large one on sale about twice a year, runs about a dollar a pound.

These are not for a production type of shop, but for a hobby or low production application they hold up fine. Easy on the wallet too.

Dave

[FriarTuck]

Hi Jim, Dave pretty much said it for me, the only additional thing would be that the brake function is a "Press" type, and you only get 90 degree bends, absolutely nothing over that, and anything under 90 degrees won't be a sharp bend, but rather more like a "roll bend". Just my nickle.

Tuck

[Gonejunking]

I always looked down on these machines, thinking that they were just toy's, and not "real" tools. I bought a Pexto shear, Tinsmith pan brake, and a roll that had no name, but was older then me, so it must be good.

My view of them changed about 2 weeks ago. I had to build some prototype parts for the 787 program out of aluminum. The parts were about 1.5" x 1.5" x .060, with 2 bent up tabs. I went to my trusty 10' power shear, and tried to dial in 1.5" on the back gauge. That's when I found out, that 3.5" is the min on the back gauge. So I cut the strips at 4.5", then went over to the 3 in 1, and finished building the parts. This was the first time that I had used this machine, and after using it for a day, (7hours) I have more respect for it.

[Gonejunking]

I always looked down on these machines, thinking that they were just toy's, and not "real" tools. I bought a Pexto shear, Tinsmith pan brake, and a roll that had no name, but was older then me, so it must be good.

My view of them changed about 2 weeks ago. I had to build some prototype parts for the 787 program out of aluminum. The parts were about 1.5" x 1.5" x .060, with 2 bent up tabs. I went to my trusty 10' power shear, and tried to dial in 1.5" on the back gauge. That's when I found out, that 3.5" is the min on the back gauge. So I cut the strips at 4.5", then went over to the 3 in 1, and finished building the parts. This was the first time that I had used this machine, and after using it for a day, (7hours) I have more respect for it.

[Gonejunking]

I always looked down on these machines, thinking that they were just toy's, and not "real" tools. I bought a Pexto shear, Tinsmith pan brake, and a roll that had no name, but was older then me, so it must be good.

My view of them changed about 2 weeks ago. I had to build some prototype parts for the 787 program out of aluminum. The parts were about 1.5" x 1.5" x .060, with 2 bent up tabs. I went to my trusty 10' power shear, and tried to dial in 1.5" on the back gauge. That's when I found out, that 3.5" is the min on the back gauge. So I cut the strips at 4.5", then went over to the 3 in 1, and finished building the parts. This was the first time that I had used this machine, and after using it for a day, (7hours) I have more respect for it.
There are a few mod's that I would make if I owned one, like putting a bend gauge on the side, and a better back gauge, but for what they are, they are a good start.

[docauto]

They are on sale today, see:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=41162

I'd recommend the big one as you can shear a full 4' sheet.

Dave

[FriarTuck]

Hi Dave, the only downside I see is the 20 guage capacity. Nearly every thing I do uses heavier guage steel. That would pretty much rule out any usefullness on Stainless. What is your experience with the "capacity" issue.

Tuck

[docauto]

Hi Rick, if you're going to be shearing using the full width, 20ga is about all you want to repeatedly, although I've also done 18ga. I've used it for up to 16ga for smaller sized panels with no problem. It's really the shear I worry about for strength, although I did break a gear in the roller drive when I was forming a very tight (1.5") radius with 1/4" wire with the roller groove (with the 36" unit), I was in a hurry, my fault.

I did quite a bit of 22ga stainless with the little machine, it did fine. I never did have to change (rotate) the shear blades.

Overall I'm very pleased with the tool, it's very versatile. I'd recommend one. I bought the big one since the little one worked so well for me. I know a lot of people who "look down" on them, but I've never talked to anyone who used one and didn't like it.

Dave

[Gonejunking]

I would be careful on the capacity, and would be looking at used equipment.
I bought my 16 ga Pexto, and 16 ga Tinsmith for $700 total. The roll was given to me.

If you could find one used for $400, then I would buy it, but $800 is too much!

Just my 2c

[docauto]

Hi Jeffery, agreed! If you have the room and access to good used equipment, go for it. If I ever expand my garage, I'll be getting dedicated 8' machines. It drives me crazy to have to make rocker panels in 2 pieces....

Dave

[joatmon]

I had bought one of these as a starter machine. It's a 30" deal and all of the above is pretty accurate. I did find a unique capability of these machines when shearing. I have since acquired 3 seperate machines of bigger, better quality. On a project I had recently I needed a very accurate and straight sheared strip 2.06 wide and over 7 feet long. Lo and behold I have no way of doing this, my shear is only 4'. Throatless shear? maybe but the width would be too inconsistant. Well, that little cheapo saved the day! If you look at these from the side the frames are relieved behind the shearing table. There was almost enough to accept my size so a rat tail cured that and Iwas able to successfully shear the 2.06 strips off the edge of an 8' sheet by shearing 33" at a time and sliding the sheet down to the next cut. Worked like a charm!

[Truckntran Bill]

I have a local store clearancing one of these and it looks pretty attractive at $250......Of course I will have to open the crate and check that it isn't broken first but I have one question for you guys that have one... Will this be able to make hat channels for floor reenforcements on a jeep?

I think the hat is 2 inches wide with about a 5/8 drop to 5/8 flanges maybe less on the drop and flange..All 90 degree bends. I know my old leaf brake wouldn't do bends that close to each other, but will this? 30 inches long is just about right for length of the hat channel pieces I need.

[NOHOME]

I have one, and I like it. It would be much better if it could handle thicker steel and was 4 foot long, however, it does a good job at what it was meant to do.

[MP&C]

The arrow in the below picture shows where this style machine tends to fail. Once the capacity is exceeded enough, this casting will crack.


http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y167/rmccartney/Misc/30ef_12_sb.jpg

[Jim Stabe]

The arrow in the below picture shows where this style machine tends to fail. Once the capacity is exceeded enough, this casting will crack.


http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y167/rmccartney/Misc/30ef_12_sb.jpg
I had one early on and that is exactly where mine broke. HF warrantied the part. I sold it to a guy that does aircraft work and it worked fine for him. I have 2 leaf breaks now and do all my straight shearing with a Kett and straightedge. If I had the room I would get a 16 ga stomp shear. The one thing I miss, but only rarely, is the finger press brake feature on the 3 in 1.

[BAILEIGH INC]

We now offer a 52" wide x 16 gauge version. They weigh 1,200 pounds and are very beefy. Look at the video.

http://www.bii1.com/videos/shear-brake-roll-sbr-5216-video.php

http://www.bii1.com/images/shears/sbr-5216-main.jpg

[Truckntran Bill]

Shane.. does the spec of 4 inches on box depth mean the closest bends you can get to each other are 4 inches? What I am looking for on this type of machine is the ability to make a Z bend with the vertical part of the z being 5/8 inch.. Possible or no?

[BAILEIGH INC]

Shane.. does the spec of 4 inches on box depth mean the closest bends you can get to each other are 4 inches? What I am looking for on this type of machine is the ability to make a Z bend with the vertical part of the z being 5/8 inch.. Possible or no?

I dont think it would work. The press bake part of it bends to a 90 degree.

[whateg01]

Shane.. does the spec of 4 inches on box depth mean the closest bends you can get to each other are 4 inches? What I am looking for on this type of machine is the ability to make a Z bend with the vertical part of the z being 5/8 inch.. Possible or no?

This type of machine typically will do a 5/8" reverse. However, the long leg that starts out sticking straight down will be limited by the distance from the shear bed to the top of the bottom brake die. The 4" box depth refers to the amount that can extend up the sides of the fingers when bending a box up.

Dave

[BAILEIGH INC]

This type of machine typically will do a 5/8" reverse. However, the long leg that starts out sticking straight down will be limited by the distance from the shear bed to the top of the bottom brake die. The 4" box depth refers to the amount that can extend up the sides of the fingers when bending a box up.

Dave


Thanks Dave! You are better at explaining it than I. ;)

[anders nørgaard]

This type of machine typically will do a 5/8" reverse. However, the long leg that starts out sticking straight down will be limited by the distance from the shear bed to the top of the bottom brake die. The 4" box depth refers to the amount that can extend up the sides of the fingers when bending a box up.

Dave

Dave,
If you make the "Z"- bend in several steps (like The Rod Doc described for the leaf brake) the leg sticking down won't be a problem. I also think it is possible to remove/unbolt the lower "shelf" for the shear feature of the machine so there won't be anything obstructing the vertical leg :cool: ;)

The width/deapth of the lower die will set the limits of how narrow bends one can make.

[whateg01]

I am currently looking at these machines, and if Harbor Freight will let me use my 20% coupon with the $399 raincheck (sale ended yesterday), I think I may buy one mainly for the shear, but also have been wanting to build a slip roll. It is when you consider the price of each individual tool and the floor space that these tools become attractive. I am not expecting great things from it, but it should make my life a little easier, and get me by until I have more money and more space for dedicated tools.

That said, I would not buy one of these solely for any single function. If somebody is interested in making bends, I would suggest, as many have before, that one be fab'd up. The brake is one of the easiest sheetmetal tools to build, IMHO. A 5/8" reverse for example could be easily accomplished with a simple leaf brake. Anders, you are correct that the referenced reverse could be done in steps. And as mentioned, the bed on these does come off pretty easily. Of course, it has to be set back up afterward, too. That seems like a lot of work to go through to make a single bend. And if it has to be repeated, I would opt for a small brake that can be put on a shelf when not in use, even if this one is available, simply because of setup time.

I sure wish I could find one of these used with broken arms. That would be an easy fix. I haven't seen any lately, though. I don't remember where this thread started, so hopefully, I haven't strayed too far off course. Not trying to start a fight, either. Just saying that if somebody wants to be able to make the 5/8" reverse mentioned, and does not already have a brake, it would be far less expensive to build one that will do that task far easier than this one.

Ok. I'm out of breath. :)

Dave

[MP&C]

Dave, I have seen the "broken" versions on Craigs List before. I think if someone were to find one and duplicate the casting with a steel plate replacement, it would help to eliminate that weak link for a nice cheap machine.

[whateg01]

Dave, I have seen the "broken" versions on Craigs List before. I think if someone were to find one and duplicate the casting with a steel plate replacement, it would help to eliminate that weak link for a nice cheap machine.

That's what I was thinking. As long as the shear bed isn't bowed. I priced the blades @ HF and they were $45 each, plus $8-10 for shipping. I'm still looking!

Dave

[captainkirk]

Does anyone have the write up I did on modifieing these units to be more effective?
I think it will answer some of the questions about where they are weak and what "might" be done to make then perform better?

I think it was lost in the "Great Big One":cry:

Kirk

[Andyman]

I contimplated one of these for a long time. The other day I was in Tractor Supply and the had them on clearance for $249. I bought one. I think it will do 50-60% of what I need, otherwise brake out the hand tools.

Andy

[Truckntran Bill]

I spoke to a clerk at the local Tractor Supply and found out that they never stocked them until Tractor Supply decided to sell off the remaining ones they have...$249 clearance price, and it seems like they should have one in every store until they sell. Not a very hot seller to the suburban farmer they have as a target market. They can call around to the other stores to see who has one if you want one. (30 inch model)

That said, I have mine, and I am in the process of cleaning it and lubricating the moving parts and knocking off all the rough edges with a file.. While cleaning up the cosmolene on it I found out the main castings are covered in BONDO just like the Chinese vises used to be, so they aren't quite as nice as they appear to be. I am not impressed with the truss either, I assume that is to prevent deflection while shearing?

So far all the holes and bolts seem to work OK, I am not impressed with the threads in it but they should be OK..I am hoping it will clean up and work better than it did out of the box...It was unuseable with all the gunk on it, and I could barely move the shear up and down. I am crossing my fingers that cleaning, lubing, and adjusting it will make it work smoothly.

[whateg01]

I spoke to a clerk at the local Tractor Supply and found out that they never stocked them until Tractor Supply decided to sell off the remaining ones they have...$249 clearance price....

I checked there a couple days after I bought mine and they were still $349.

Dave

[Truckntran Bill]

Maybe it is a Texas thing? I checked in Brownwood, Texas, Brady, Texas, and bought mine in Ballinger. The one I got was in a box that looked like it was stored outside, the labels were all faded, but so far I haven't found anything broken... The clerk that helped me load it said it came in a few weeks back and was put on clearance immediately.
This is the same store that clearances out garden tractor tires one at a time(never in pairs..) and then restocks them a couple months later at full price, so they sometimes make ya wonder about how they keep going..

[Truckntran Bill]

Okay, after a few forgotten bolts, I have it all back together, and here's my opinion so far..Well worth the sale price.. I adjusted the shear clearance to almost nothing, and it shears a whole lot better than it did set like it was out of the box. I also replacedthe washers holding on the shear blade with larger ones..I tried making them tight enough so there was considerable resistance moving the handle, but looser worked much better. I needed to tighten the blade clearance instead.

And the press brake part worked very well with one upper in place.. I am going to have some fun aligning all of them to do a full 30 inch piece.. And the part with the 5/8 z bends was no prob once I figured out to do the outer bends first, then flip the part over. It will overbend to about a 120 degree bend if you don't watch the bend...

Once I go get some CRS for my project I will post up some in process pics.

The instructions mention that you need to bolt the machine down...I had it sitting on the strongest bench in my garage right now, a Craftsman tool storage unit/workbench/cabinet thing, and I will say it needs a much stronger bench than that. My old oak bench will be much more appropriate when I get it here...and bolting it to the bench is also a must in my opinion.

[whateg01]

Yes, you at least need either the front or the back bolted down, depending on which way you swing the handle. I have just the back bolted down and it works fine when I swing the handle forward. My bench is a couple of 3' metal bookcases full of junk that are bolted back to back. That puts a lot of weight behind the front lower edge of the bookcase the machine sits on.

I'm curious how it does on the 30" bend. I am a little hesitant to try a full 30". I'm not sure it is heavy enough for that. At least not in the materials I am using.

Dave

[78elky]

I just picked one up from a scrapper. He had no clue what it was or how it worked. I talked him down to $75.00. It is intact and unbroken.
There appear to be a32 bolts at the tom missing to adjust the slip rolls.

Anyone know if they metric or SAE and what size/thread they are?

Also, Can anyone tell me where to get the manual for it?
Any help appreciated!

Thanks!!
Glenn

[anders nørgaard]

Congrats on the deal Glenn :)

What brand is it? Might make it easier to find a user's manual if we knew what we're looking for ;)

[oldgoaly]

Could be a old Triok? beleive those were made here in the states for a few years late 70's thru the early 80's, the Jet came out with their version, then hf knocked them off.

[78elky]

Harbor Freight.

[anders nørgaard]

...Also, Can anyone tell me where to get the manual for it?
Any help appreciated!

Thanks!!
Glenn

30"??
40" has metric bolts
You can download the product manual from the HF site :cool: ;)

[Truckntran Bill]

Yup. all metric bolts, and the manual is pretty useless.

[whateg01]

Download the Jet manual. There are a few differences, but they are similar enough for the manual to be useful.

Dave

[Overkill]

Captian Kirk had the best fix for these machines that I've seen. He did a write up, but I think it was lost in the crash. Mostly it was adding braces to reduce flex.

The slip roll works, but you will find that it will easily bow.

It's worth putting the time in to beef it up before much use. I found I was constantly adjusting mine - mainly the tension bolt in the back. No info in the HF manual, did it the farmer method (just futz with it until it works). Ended up getting frustrated after a while and sold it on craigslist after I upgraded to commercial grade equipment.

[AndersK]

I might have Kirks sketches saved somewhere.
I'll see if I can find them.

[Unknowing]

Hello All,

AndersK could you see about those sketches, I have a 3 in 1 that I use only for a brake and it bows when I brake anything over 8 inches ( 19 gauge ), I would really like to make some parts that are 48" long

thanks

John

[AndersK]

Found one sketch on a USB stick together with the King's tuck shrinking hammer profile and some other goodies.
There might have been more sketches in the original post.

http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=95&pictureid=5096

Took some photos of my own 40" to describe what Kirk posted.

The "backbone", I used a U-beam instead. Futre improvement to get the shear better would be to add more set screws and remove some of the bolts.
http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=95&pictureid=5099

Kirk also mentioned that he braced the bottom plate, I havent done that as you can see.
http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=95&pictureid=5098

Another observation I made that would help shearing would be to lift up the lower shear blade slightly so it aligns with the table.
As it sits now the sheet will bend down which doesnt make the situation better if the clearance between blades is on the large side.
http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=95&pictureid=5097

Be careful when tapping holes and tightening bolts. This is the softest cast iron I've ever seen so a good advice is to use a smaller drillbit than normal when adding threads. I would also reccomend putting in longer bolts where possible to balance out the load on more winds.

I knew this wasnt a good tool but I got it really cheap and I dont have the room for three dedicated machines (yet, I hope...)

/Anders

[Unknowing]

AndersK, Sorry but it's not clear to me. Are you saying that you welded an "I beam" to the underside of the brake, added set screws and adjusted it ( and that's it?)

John

[whateg01]

I don't understand the reason for putting the additional support at the top of the blade support. The area that needs the support the most is actually directly behind the upper shear blade. I think the original truss is sufficient, but the contact area on the blade support needs to be spread out. Using the deep flat, or in your case, the web of the I-beam, helps with that, since you are able to put several set screws in. I don't doubt that overall, your added support is better than the original, but with the bolts all holding the beam to the blade support, I don't see the set screws doing a lot.

I think that, assuming the threaded holes at the ends where the original truss attached are intact, a better solution is to use another truss, but with a piece of "heavier" strap between the spreader and the blade support.

And I second the notion of these machines being made from some of the softest cast iron ever imagined. Engage as many threads as you can.

I should add that the wider bed on your brake may mean that the distance between the center and the truss attachment points is too large, but that could be negated by using a stiffer piece between the spreader and the blade support. My brake is only 30", so a single pressure point seems to be okay, with just some strap behind it.

Dave

[AndersK]

As I understood Kirk's original post the added support behind the upper blade was, as mentioned, to get set screws in to make adjustment of the blade clearance possible (the blades aren't straight enough to give a consistent gap). And also to give added support for the truss, which will bend when working with full width, I've tried and seen it do so.
I'm not where I can shear a 19 gage 40" wide steel sheet yet.

John, I didnt weld anything, just bolted the beam behind the upper blade. Kirk might have done as you said under the machine to support the table. I dont recall exactly.
Where's our King when we need him?

[ByronA]

Hi, I saw Kirk's original photos some time back and hoped to follow them, luckily andersK had the sketch!

Attached are some photos of my version of the improved brace. I basically welded some 65mm x 10mm plate to both sides of the original brace to make a beam with some nuts/bolts (aligned to the raised webbing). The beam now weighs about 15kg so it shouldn't flex at all.

I had some real fun getting the brace bolted on after all this as it seemed to have shrunk??? Anyway I forced it on but that created some pressure that bowed the the shearing bit (not good on the terminology). Anyway got it back off and filed the end holes a little bit to take the pressure off and it was a lot easier to get on and no bowing. The hex head bolts and the centre bolt are all tight and unscrewed 1/8th or so they still have contact to counteract bowing.

A quick test on 0.7mm an it went through it like butter so I'm happy.

I can take more pictures but hope these help someone. I also made a trolley out of 50mm square tube and 45mm round trampoline tubing. It's 700mm wide at the base and 600mm high. With 9 wheels it's very stable and easy to move. I used some of the timber that the 3in1 came in to make some shelves as well.

Now to work on the car!

Cheers

Byron

[merlinsautobody]

I made a hard copy of kirks original post. The photos are poor because I printed them economy good enough to see but not real good when scaned I scaned them into a pdf file if anyone is intrested or maybe have access to original photos so this could be reposted I dont know how to attach a pdf file to a post but if someone pms me with an email address I can send it that way