how do i remove this recessed body line ?

[HotRodKid]

the car : 1998 ford focus
the body line: the recess for the bump strip that runs across the doors and 1/4 panels

a friend of mine wants me to shave his focus

here you have a sideview of a focus missing its bump strips
http://www.7extrememotorsports.com/wrc/photos/ford_focus_rs_07.jpg
and below is my cruddy rendering of what i have to work with, the top of the recess is about a 1/4 inch deep, the bottom of the recess is a crease that occurs right at the bottom of the original moulding (moulding shown in brown)

is there a way to hammer shink something like this out, or should i just cut along the upper side, hammer everything flat, then weld it all back together ??

[FriarTuck]

Hi Nick, You might be on the right track, if you have the door stripped out, and you can get to the insides of the door and q-panel. Leaving the inside lip from what is left of the flattened material might add to the stiffness of the panel, which is what the recess was for in the first place I suspect. Can't say from experience. Just my nickles worth.

Tuck

[rsanter]

I would just cut a strip to weld in and fill the recess area. doing this will be the least disruptive to the structure of the door

bob

[HotRodKid]

the recess does add a bit of stiffness to the panel, as for the most part the side panels of this car dont have much crown to them

im thinking of making a piece that goes from the stock internal beam, and extends upward, something that has 3 or 4 vertical posts, and then one horizontal bar, that i can then epoxy to the door skin, just to add some stiffness

i was considering just welding in a full length patch, but these panels are thin enough to dent with your finger if you wanted to, and one full length pass with the MIg is bad enough, i donno if i want to make 2 passes down each panel

plus on the ends of the door, i want to remove the recess so that theres no evidence that ford ever even put it there,

of course, technically the recess is shallow enough to just fill with bondo :)

[astroracer]

the recess does add a bit of stiffness to the panel, as for the most part the side panels of this car dont have much crown to them

im thinking of making a piece that goes from the stock internal beam, and extends upward, something that has 3 or 4 vertical posts, and then one horizontal bar, that i can then epoxy to the door skin, just to add some stiffness

i was considering just welding in a full length patch, but these panels are thin enough to dent with your finger if you wanted to, and one full length pass with the MIg is bad enough, i donno if i want to make 2 passes down each panel

plus on the ends of the door, i want to remove the recess so that theres no evidence that ford ever even put it there,

of course, technically the recess is shallow enough to just fill with bondo :)
Nick,
You never want to do a "full length pass" when welding body panels. These parts should be tack welded at decreasing intervals, cooling things off as you go, until the whole panel is welded. It would be do-able that way (and still a lot of work!).
Mark

[Joefish]

i was considering just welding in a full length patch, but these panels are thin enough to dent with your finger if you wanted to, and one full length pass with the MIg is bad enough, i donno if i want to make 2 passes down each panel

plus on the ends of the door, i want to remove the recess so that theres no evidence that ford ever even put it there,

of course, technically the recess is shallow enough to just fill with bondo :)

Hi Nick

Tack weld the strip in and move around the door to keep the heat from warping the doors. Fit the strip well make it clean and set the welder up with 023 use scrap to test weld set up.


The ends of the door might be the hard part. If you unrolled the edge of the skin both aeras can be worked. At that point maybe a guy with a shrinker could flatten the whole skin and rehammer it back on, a lot or work

I think the doors will be easy compaired to the fenders and rear pnls.

The bondo will crack on the door skin due to flex and vibrations every time its closed.

Custom work is labor intensive. I bet some of you would just make a new door skin. I wish I could do that.

Check out my chop top p/u in my gallery

[rsanter]

I think you could fill the middle of the reccess with a filler pannel welded in and just cut the end part to bend out flat with the rest of the door. that will give the look of it never bieng there.
I have seen it done by filling with bondo and it always cracks

bob

[Hairy-Neil]

Hi Nick
The bondo will crack on the door skin due to flex and vibrations every time its closed.


Would stand up to it better if the worst of it was Red Rescued first...... :evil: ;)

[HotRodKid]

dont worry guys, i was just joking about the "filling it with bondo"

and i also know the tackweld procedure for sheetmetal , but 3 fet of tack welds on each door is one think, 6 feet on each door is another

i wish i could create a new door skin. a trip to the dealership to score a fresh skin to use as a pattern, creaete a lower skin for each side using it, and put my weld line just below the door handle level crease instead

oh well, ill figuer out how im doing this later

i also get to shave the rear license plate recess .... but ill get that patch from the front of a used hood ...
http://www.fastforwardltd.com/Focus%20rear%20newhh.jpg

[sha_ba_do_bang]

why dont you just buy some 18 or 19 guage or whatever the skin is, it should be alot cheaper than buying body panels from the dealership, they think they are gold plated

[Joefish]

Would stand up to it better if the worst of it was Red Rescued first...... :evil: ;)

What is red rescued? :???:

[John Kelly]

You might be able to treat that profile as a tuck and further define the tuck shape, then hammer to shrink and smooth...all from the inside if you have room to swing your hammer....a lot of work, but I would try it on a short section before resorting to welding. You can always weld later if tuck shrinking does not do it.

John www.ghiaspecialties.com

[HotRodKid]

i was trying to think of how i could manage that, but i dont think i can, i would have to raise it in a matter that would allow me to dolly the inside and hammer the outside

and at this point, my welding skills far exceed my tuck shrinking skills

i asked my buddy to find some pics of focus doors that have been disassembeled. i figured since hes on all the ford focus forums, he might have an easier time finding a thread where somone had pics of their bare door due to fixing the car they wrecked or because they were installing speakers

later today im taking a trip to the ford dealership to put in a job application, so i might have a chance to peak @ a disassembeled door, either in the shop or in the scrap sheet metal pile

if i can, ill also try to find a donor doorso that i dont have to reform the edge, i can just cut & weld a small path to take care of the end of the recess

[Boogiemanz1]

There is another post concerning this, you may want to review http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3914&page=1&pp=10

john

[Wray Schelin]

the car : 1998 ford focus
the body line: the recess for the bump strip that runs across the doors and 1/4 panels

a friend of mine wants me to shave his focus

here you have a sideview of a focus missing its bump strips
http://www.7extrememotorsports.com/wrc/photos/ford_focus_rs_07.jpg
and below is my cruddy rendering of what i have to work with, the top of the recess is about a 1/4 inch deep, the bottom of the recess is a crease that occurs right at the bottom of the original moulding (moulding shown in brown)

is there a way to hammer shink something like this out, or should i just cut along the upper side, hammer everything flat, then weld it all back together ??


We recently discussed this same problem several months ago.

Here are your options:

1- Buy new sheetmetal panels cut them and weld in new stock to eliminate the beltline feature. Install the new panels.

2-hand make new panels and weld them in.

3- cut out strip with beltline and weld in new metal on the car.

4- Cut the beltline in the center then hammer smooth remove overlap and butt weld.

5 - Try hammering the beltline flat and then shrink away the excess metal with a torch and shrinking disc.

6- fill the beltline with lead.

7- fill the beltline with waterproof bondo.

8- fill the beltline with regular bondo.

Let your customer make the choice after suppling him with costs.

I would suggest getting a damaged door panel from a junk yard to test out some of the methods.

[HotRodKid]

alrighty, i think ill be using a few diferent approaches here

since the door recess is "deep" towards the rear, and near the front it fades to just an 1/8" (or less) step, this is what im thinking

the very front section on the door i will heat shrink, as the step is hardly enough to tuck shrink, yet not enough to cut & weld , i feel confident that a proper pas with the torch, and some quick hammer / dolly work will net me a respectable finish

the middle section of the door will be cut and welded

the last 6" of the door will be replaced with a section from a donor door, allowing me access to tuck shrink the small section of door jamb, properly prep it, then wrap a fresh section of skin around it

for the section on the 1/4 panels, i will most likely make a filler piece and weld it in, as i have to assume the worst, that i wont have acess from behind to cut / hammer / weld, the hammering part being the hard part in that case

making a new lower skin for the door would be easier, if i had the skills to make the wheel well recess in the front part of the door. i dont think i have the skills yet to make a recess such as this.

but i have 2 months to finish this project (car show in carlisle comin up the owner would like it done for) so i have some time to find a test door to figure the best approach

[Spanky]

You're not gonna have a lot of hammer and dolly access to the door. The inner brace runs parralel(sp) with the belt moulding. If you remove the inner quarter trim and rear seat-which you should anyways if you're gonna do a lot of welding- you will gain a fair amount of access to the quarter for dolly work.
If it was me(like that's worth anything) I would get some 20 gauge sheet and make the filer panel for the gate out of that instead of pilaging a used hood for metal,jmo.

[Doug98105]

This is a fairly new car, so my question is, does the body metal of these new vehicles form, shape, stretch, shrink, weld, etc like the metal in older cars?

The term HSS* is used to describe newer body metal, _H_igh _S_trength _S_teel. My understanding is it's thin and tough to work.

Doug

*HSS also refers to high speed steel, a tool steel, confusing.

[HotRodKid]

i was pushing on the skin from the outside, trying to determine where the door beam was, and i couldnt seam to locate it, the one picture i found would seam to indicate that the beam is a dit diagnal, the front of it would appear to be about middle of the door, the rear end of the beam appears to be about 1/3 of the way up from the bottom

the best i can guesstimate at the moment, id have inside access to about 1/3 of the recess from the back side

as for the 1/4, i donno yet, some cars have solid inner panels with just a speaker cut out, others are wide open

for the door, im hoping that the beam is far enough from the extrenal panel that i can get a spoon dolly in there, but i dont know yet. thats hoping alot, lol

as for pilaging the metal from a used hood, the hood in question literaly has less then 100 miloes on it , someone bought the car, and promplty killed their daughters bike the first time they parked the van in the driveway, leaving a 3" long gash in the corner of the hood with the handle bars

since the hood has a near perfect dome to it already, i dont see a problem with carefully measuring and getting a piece from the exact centerline of the hood to make the patch panel.... now it it was a 15 year old hood with all the usual dents and chips and stuff, then i wouldnt be using it

and yes, i will be doing lots of disassembly, the doors will be stripped of EVERYTHING and removed from the car and placed on a stand. the rear seats, panels and carpet will all be out, and ill most likely pull the front seats also so that its easy to crawl around AND it makes it easier to deal with protecting the interior from sparks

a spark on a plastic panel or the carpet is bad, but a spark in the foam of a seat is a much worse fire hazard .... i dont feel like spending my fee on a new interior for my buddy

[35WINDOW]

I know this will be as appropriate as a **** in church, but since that metal is so thin what about using a product like Fusor or SEM and bonding a strip of metal to the door (maybe making a inside flange for the Adhesive? I dunno, just a thought-

[Hairy-Neil]

What is red rescued? :???:

Is what glassfibre repair paste (the waterproof stuff used for bridging holes) is called in the trade around these parts. Guess its something to do with it being red once hardener is added and is used to "rescue" panels that really need renewing. :wink:

[Joefish]

Is what glassfibre repair paste (the waterproof stuff used for bridging holes) is called in the trade around these parts. Guess its something to do with it being red once hardener is added and is used to "rescue" panels that really need renewing. :wink:

Oh we call it long and strong I like your name better