18" bead roller pic`s ??

[Maukka]

Does enyone have pictures 18" bead roller. I am plannig to make my first one. And I need pics, and plans how to make one? I`d like to do flames to my panels whit it. Maybe my bead roller could look like this? http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=34104
Does anyone have ideas for bead roller?
My english ain´t so good but i hope you all undertand what i mean... :-)

[anders nørgaard]

Does enyone have pictures 18" bead roller. I am plannig to make my first one. And I need pics, and plans how to make one? I`d like to do flames to my panels whit it. Maybe my bead roller could look like this? http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=34104
Does anyone have ideas for bead roller?
My english ain´t so good but i hope you all undertand what i mean... :-)

Hi Maukka (insert real name here. We are a friendly bunch and prefer to use real names)
WELCOME to MM! Good to see a new member from my parts of the world :lol:
Try entering Photo Gallery (in the blue bar upper left corner)
Type "Beadroller" in the search field and LOTS of pics will pop up http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/images/icons/icon6.gif
The HF roller will need a lot of beefing up to be stiff enough.
Take a look at Boogiemanz1's roller and you'll find something that could be just right for you http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/images/icons/icon12.gif

[tdoty]

Don't know of any plans off-hand, but the HF-style roller shouldn't be too hard to copy. The HF machine has two 1" diameter shafts, 4 shaft support blocks, 2 gears (the same size o.d. and tooth count) and a frame made of 1/2" (???3/8"???) steel plate.

Since the HF design needs a bit of beefing to begin with, something similar to John (Boogiemanz1) Brown's design would be a good place to start. John uses 2 plates, and puts the shaft support blocks between them. This makes for a stiff frame (in all directions) and it looks great too.

Using 2 plates cut to the same basic design as the HF unit would be a simple solution. 1 1/2" square stock (minimum) for the shaft support blocks. Gears? I've heard someone mention that washing machine transmission gears work nicely.

I'm sure there are others who can offer more specific details :D .

HTH,
Tim D.

[Hairy-Neil]

My english ain´t so good but i hope you all undertand what i mean... :-)

Seems good to me and is streets ahead of our command of Finnish. Welcome to Metalmeet. ;)

[Maukka]

Don't know of any plans off-hand, but the HF-style roller shouldn't be too hard to copy. The HF machine has two 1" diameter shafts, 4 shaft support blocks, 2 gears (the same size o.d. and tooth count) and a frame made of 1/2" (???3/8"???) steel plate.

HTH,
Tim D.

Does these saft support blocks have any bearings at all?

[tdoty]

Actually, the HF bead roller has no bearings or bushings, the steel shafts ride directly on the steel support blocks. Adding bearings or bronze (oillite) bushings would be an improvement, at least for longitevity.

Tim D.

[rsanter]

I recently got lazy and bought the HF unit. I have a pair of gears I had collected in order to build my own bead roller. it still may be a good idea to buy the HF unit just for the dies as that was a large part of my justification. the gears I was planning to use are fron a racing quick change rear end. the ones I have are left over ones and have nothing wrong with them, however you can likly get some used ones with some minor teeth chipping or a little rust (for little to nothing if you hunt around the racer crowd) as alot of racers wont use them.

bob

[Maukka]

I have just started machinist school, and i can do gears and my own kind of dies there. So that won`t be a problem.
But this is my first one to build up. So i need some tip`s and measurments to do good bead roller. Maybe i`ll but bearings to my own hf roller, so it will be easyer to roll it.
Thank you all for your answers. Maybe in six months i have planned and done my own hf roller. If somebody got ideas for good bearings that would be nice.

-Mauri Lusua-

[rsanter]

if you just started machinist school, then this would be a great project to work on as well as the anvils for a english wheel

you should be able to look at some of the pix of the HF as well as members bead rollers and do a real killer one.

I personally would do the 2 plates that have the blocks between, use bushing or needle bearings, 3/4 shafts, and I would buid it with a stand for independant use in the middle of the floor.

I would make a tool that has a bigger gap for working on a variety of material shapes. this would be easy to do by using gears that are larger diameter and mandrells that are larger as well.

also, you may want to concider making 2 or 3 at the same time as the seup is most the work. you will then be able to sell the other units to recoup your costs.

remember you will need to harden at least the shearing dies

[Peter Miles]

Larger diameter dies/mandrels will have a larger contact patch and this will increase the minimum turning radius.

It may not be significant, but it is at least worth considering.

[Ron G]

The HF roller needs stiffening anyway. Couldn't you cut more clearance in the frame for a crown, then stiffen the frame with whatever it takes? I don't have mine modified yet. JMHO
Ron

[Ron G]

Ok.OK. I take it back. I was working from memory. Not much left at my age. There isn't much to be gained by that process. I was picturing it differently in my mind.
Ron

[rsanter]

the ability to work a pannel with a bit of a crown is whay I mentioned the use of larger diameter gears and mandrels. now I do realize that doing so will effect the radius you can do but we are not talking a ballance between two abilities.
where would we get the best bang both ways?
it would be harder but the system could be double geared with smaller gears near the mandrels so than the shafts could be farther apart.
or how about having the shafts at an angle with larger drive gears and smaller mandrels with the taper made into them?

bob

[Maukka]

What is dies "key" hole diameter? And overall diameter? on normal hf bead roller. And what is gears diameter? About same as Dies overall diameter? I´m starting to do my hf roller. But never seen one. On normal rollers dies, gears and shafts are smaller. More good tips are welcome. What roth deep is good on manual used hf rollers? 18"?

[Maukka]

Yes, i have cheked the photo gallery and there are good photos of workin rollers. But Exact measurements are those what i have been looking for. This becouse if i some day buy some dies i want them to fit my roller.. And hf roller and dies measurments are those what i have been looking for.
Here is link to phote of my rawing. Support blocks ain`t in their right places and the rawing ain`t ready yet. anyway... Does it look working??
http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/6265/piirustus3qt.jpg

[Maukka]

Here`s same picture little bit later...
http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/7023/piirustus14fv.jpg

[Tin Head]

Maukka,

You are right on with your drawings. The HF gears are based on a 2" shaft seperation. The gears are 1.5" wide with a .875 dia hole.

Make the shafts from 1" shafting and turn the ends down .875" x 1.4375" long. Drill and tap the ends for a 3/8's bolt and use hardened washers under the bolt head to secure the dies. You don't need to drill and tap each die if using the hardened washer. It will hold great.

The gears are 10 DP with a 2" pitch dia x 20 teeth x 1" wide. I would mill the shafts and broach the gears for keyways. Seems like there can be quite a bit of torque applied there. You will have to drill and tap the gears for a set screw on top of the keyway.

The bearing blocks can be made of 1" thick steel. If you intend to use the bead roller a lot, I would use bushings. Keep the height of the blocks to a minimum as the dictate the throat height of you frame. Get all you can there. I think my blocks have about a 1/16" above and below the bushings. Not much, but they ain't broke yet. You could offset the hole in taller blocks to add more material on the bottom of the lower blocks and more on the top of the upper blocks. This won't affect the throat height at all. One other thing you could do is to offset the threaded hole in the top front block a little further up. This would get the sliding bolt head higher on the frame. Not a big deal, but may gian some.

Don't forget that other dies can be used with this setup. I believe Pexto 622 dies can be used with a thin bushing. Ron Covell offers this I think.

That ought to get you going on a quality bead roller. Do a great job! Oh, and don't skimp on the frame material. Use at least 1/2" thick steel. 5/8's is better yet.

Bob

[Maukka]

Thanks Tin Head. These are the measurments what i have been lookign for.

[rsanter]

I think if you are going to base your design on the compatability with the HF unit, I would start by buying the HF unit. you may want to steal some parts other than the dies

bob

[anders nørgaard]

I think if you are going to base your design on the compatability with the HF unit, I would start by buying the HF unit. you may want to steal some parts other than the dies

bob

Hi Bob,
That's exactly what I did http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/images/icons/icon10.gif

TimmyK had a spare and gave it to me. I just had to pay shipping http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/images/icons/icon7.gif
Should be here in a few dayshttp://www.metalmeet.com/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif

I'll use the shafts, dies and gears and make a stronger body for ithttp://www.metalmeet.com/forum/images/icons/icon6.gif

[CCWKen]

I agree, you should start with the HF "kit". I've said many times here that the dies are worth the price alone. If you can make your own dies, then there's no reason to copy the HF dies. The format can be your own design. The two inch format is good because metal stock will be cheaper and easier to get than say a 2 1/2 or 3".

By the way, the last time I was in HF I noticed the current offering seem thinner than the old models. The mainframe looks like it's 3/8" or 10mm. I checked mine and it's 12mm or about 1/2". It looks like they're skimping on the newer models. I guess they figure most that buy it will beef it up anyway. I'm wondering about the dies now.

[Maukka]

I haven`t found any hf machines on sale, in finland.
And in school i have all the machines to make gears and safts and dies.

[rsanter]

ken
I thought I saw the same thing. when I saw the thing before and then recently bought the unit I swear the main plate is thinner.

in fact I was thinking about when I modify my unit I would also mill the opening out to the same distance of the shafts are apart

bob

[Maukka]

Project has been startet now. Tomorrow i´ll make the gears, and then i have to go to the shop and get the axels.
Gears gona be 54mm pitch die x 18 teeth x 25mm wide. Axels gona be 25mm. I`m gona mill the key ways to axels for gears and dies.
Dies gona be adjustable on axels. That way dies doesn`t have to be on pairs.
Frame gona be like hf, but plates on both sides, and gears between the plates.

Is hf bead roller easy to roll on handle? If handle or wheel is to hard to roll, i´m gona make "downing" gears on that to.. Any more ideas before i`ll start?

[Doug98105]

Here're a couple of pics of a different concept in a rolling machine, something to think about.

This is an MGZ machine made in Italy with parallel closing shafts. Parallel shafts are nice for wide profile rolls, especially when the final contour requires several passes. Actually there're quite a few advantages of the parallel shafts, some of the older floor mounted Pexto and Niagara rollers even had them.

This type machine will do lots of things with the correct tooling. As shown the throat depth is fairly shallow, shaft extensions keying on the tapered shaft ends extend the throat. In the picture I have it setup with an infeed table with guides to feed round wire through, the dies flatten the wire.

http://www.metalmeet.com/photopost/data/500/beader1.jpg

http://www.metalmeet.com/photopost/data/500/beader2.jpg

Doug

[Maukka]

http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/4813/hfframe9to.jpg

Hello folks!

Would these mesurments be stiff enought to hf frame. Thickness is 10mm.
And this frame come in double to both sides of safts.

[anders nørgaard]

http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/4813/hfframe9to.jpg

Hello folks!

Would these mesurments be stiff enought to hf frame. Thickness is 10mm.
And this frame come in double to both sides of safts.

Hi Maukka,
I think it will!

On the hf the measurements are 90 / 20 / 90 (yours 100 / 30 / 100) and the "backbone of a hf is 130 (yours 150)

Double it and weld in a few gussets and you'll have a stiff frame.

[Maukka]

Hi Maukka,
I think it will!

On the hf the measurements are 90 / 20 / 90 (yours 100 / 30 / 100) and the "backbone of a hf is 130 (yours 150)

Double it and weld in a few gussets and you'll have a stiff frame.


Yes, its gona be doulble on both sides of safts. On 10mm thickness.
And the others where right Andreas you do live in web. Fastes answer ever!..

[anders nørgaard]

Hi Mauri,

No, I don't live on the web, but I've been away for playing an annual golf tournament today...... haven't been on MM since last night :o :o :o got the shakes http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Maukka]

Is step dies, other side od allways same as gears pitch od ?