1st big repair project

[313ryans]

Also posted this at autobodystore.com and 240sx.org...I posted an inner fender repair question on this site earlier also, I now have updated pics.

I recently had a brake failure and ran my 89 Nissan 240sx into the back end of a Jeep Grand Cherokee at 30 mph. The Jeep was fine, my front end is pretty messed up.

I really like the car, and want the challenge of making it driveable again.

I have metalshaping experience in college level sculpture and jewelry and high school level welding. I was very good at it, but high school was 18 years ago and those college classes were 14 years ago.

I teach high school art, and should have access to most shop equipment. I can't use it here, as there are no certified welders on site and the autoshop teacher only does half days. His classes are filled with destructive a-holes anyway. I should be able to borrow anything i need, barring political interference ( a distinct possibility here).

I am tenacious, and talented with materials enough to get this project done. I just do not have experience doing body work at this level. I will post 1 picture here, and any others later to get an idea of what I am dealing with.

I plan to either use a come-along and torch/hammer to shape, or possibly cutting the front section of a junked 240sx, then popping out the spot welds and welding on the front end.

thanks in advance for any suggestions and insight.

[313ryans]

oops, that was the older pic

[Spanky]

Your'e tackling quite a project for a "first timer"!
The first step is to tear down the sheet metal and front cover and coolers,headlights, you get the idea,right?
Now you need to have the unibody squared up BEFORE any structure components are removed.
You can't just cut off this piece and put a new one on-you'll one large can of worms to deal with in the end.
Good luck.

[jaduncan]

funny you should mention Cherokees.
I saw one today that had been rearended by a newer model F150. The truck had its hood bent up and the grill and fenders demolished. and a big puddle under it. The Jeep looked like the only damage was to the hatch.
(glass broken out and a crease in the middle) For sure it could have been driven away. Couldnt say that for the Ford. They must be built right or something.

Allen

[313ryans]

those jeeps have that huge chunk of metal supporting the trailer hitch, that is what my car (that is built pretty low to the ground) crashed into.

I have the front lights/bumper, fender, etc removed, someone at the autobodystore site said to remove the radiator support by drilling the spot welds then using the comealong to pull out the crumpled left inner fender.

I was thinking about using the comealong to pull the radiator support out first, then removing the radiator support. gotta get the measurements for the car 1st to make sure it is all square.

[Ernie Ferrucci]

313ryans wrote: (Don't know your real name?)

I was thinking about using the comealong to pull the radiator support out first, then removing the radiator support. gotta get the measurements for the car 1st to make sure it is all square.

Be careful when using come-a-longs to pull out damaged sheet metal. If the attachments or cable breaks it can cause serious injury and/or damage. I have had 3/8" bolts shear clean through on pulls using a frame machine. Overkill on hook-ups are aceptable.

[jaduncan]

313ryans wrote: (Don't know your real name?)

Be careful when using come-a-longs to pull out damaged sheet metal. If the attachments or cable breaks it can cause serious injury and/or damage. I have had 3/8" bolts shear clean through on pulls using a frame machine. Overkill on hook-ups are aceptable.


Or pushing (porta-power,jack) make darn sure both ends are FIRMLY supported! I don't have a post now (whirly gal got my tree) and while trying to push out a rad support by bolting down a piece of angle iron across the top of of it and using a porta-power, forgot to make sure the back end was not gonna move. lol Course it kicked out and got the windshield! Common sense right? riiiight! Oh well I'll know better next time. (maybe)

Allen

[anders nørgaard]

313ryans wrote: (Don't know your real name?)

Be careful when using come-a-longs to pull out damaged sheet metal. If the attachments or cable breaks it can cause serious injury and/or damage. I have had 3/8" bolts shear clean through on pulls using a frame machine. Overkill on hook-ups are aceptable.

Could someone please tell me: What is a "Come-a long?????"

NEVER USE CABLE when pulling!!!! If a cable breaks, the ends will fly around like a whip!!!!!!! Can cause very serious enjury :o :o :o :o

I've seen a pilot house ripped off of a trawler, because one of the cables broke when load testing :o :o :o UGLY!!!!!

Use a chain instead! If a chain breaks, it just "dies" and fall to the ground

[Ernie Ferrucci]

Anders wrote:Could someone please tell me: What is a "Come-a long?????"
Hi Anders
A come-a long is a ratchet winch device often rigged with steel wire cable. I'm sure they all have load ratings but people have been known to use them to pull auto body sheet metal and exceeded their capacity. They (cable come-a-longs) are not safe in my opinion for this type of work. I would show you a photo but I don't own this type. I have a chain version. I guess a Google search would turn up some photos and descriptions

[anders nørgaard]

Anders wrote:
Hi Anders
A come-a long is a ratchet winch device often rigged with steel wire cable. I'm sure they all have load ratings but people have been known to use them to pull auto body sheet metal and exceeded their capacity. They (cable come-a-longs) are not safe in my opinion for this type of work. I would show you a photo but I don't own this type. I have a chain version. I guess a Google search would turn up some photos and descriptions

Hi Ernie,
Thanks for explaining http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/images/icons/icon7.gif Now I know what you're talking about and I sure WOULD NOT use a come-a-long for bodywork!!!!!!

http://www.metalmeet.com/photopost/data/500/come_a_long.jpg

Miserable pic quality http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/images/icons/icon11.gif But this must be it http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/images/icons/icon10.gif

In Danish it's a "skraldetalje" http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Spanky]

Yup,that's it!
Every backyard bodyman uses those for repairs.
Don't get me wrong,they have their place,but not in trying to repair structual damage in a unibody vehicle.
A chain system is definately a safer and more accurate repair method. One thing I always did when using high pressure on the frame machine was to throw welding blankets on the chains and clamps-if they were to give or rip the steel then they will fall down much quicker this way.
Although I don't realy recommend how you are going about this,you are correct in keeping the rad suppt on and useing that to pull the damage out with. Once the area is close to the desired measurements,then cut off the damaged panels for replacement.

[Hairy-Neil]

Which reminds me, have you seen the damage done when the wire rope breaks at the start of the film Ghost Ship? :o

[jaduncan]

Could someone please tell me: What is a "Come-a long?????"

NEVER USE CABLE when pulling!!!! If a cable breaks, the ends will fly around like a whip!!!!!!! Can cause very serious enjury :o :o :o :o

I've seen a pilot house ripped off of a trawler, because one of the cables broke when load testing :o :o :o UGLY!!!!!

Use a chain instead! If a chain breaks, it just "dies" and fall to the ground


Ive had a link (or a piece of one) from a chain whiz pretty close while pulling a stump with a tractor. Dunno how fast it was going but I bet it would a hurt. Have also broken a supposedly (advertised) unbreakable stretch um strap trying to jerk a car out of a ditch. It rubber banded back and broke my windshield right in front of my face. Your absolutly right about cables theyre scarey. I don't trust anything while pulling.


Allen

[313ryans]

I like the welding blanket idea, some thick canvas I have should do the trick.

If this is not a good idea, then what other options do I have? Taking it to a professional shop is not really an option as I can not afford that.

[Spanky]

Honestly, that is what should be done to assure correct unibody alignment.
You need to know EXACTLY where the rails,radiator support,ans suspension are in relationship to the new part before they are welded together...if they are incorrect, you're gonna have your hands full when it comes time to "hang" the sheetmetal and wheel alignment may suffer as well.

[kustomizingkid]

I absolutley hate comealongs. My grandpa and I were trying to unstick a stuck truck with one when the cable broke. It went through the grill through the radiator and just tore a hole right through it.


Brandon McCarthy

[Peter Miles]

Growing up on a farm, I saw a lot of wrong things being done to and with cables. I was fortunate to survive some of the mistakes of myself and others.

You certainly want to pay attention to and respect the load rating of a cable. A rusty 3/16" cable probably is not the best choice for pulling a stuck 20,000 pound truck out of 18" of heavy mud.

Most cable failures can be attributed to using a frayed cable, one that has been kinked badly (if you have to pound the kink out with a hammer you should probably either cut it in half at the kink or throw it away) or overloaded.

Never shock-load a cable, it isn't a snatch-strap. It will do a heck of a job of playing crack the whip, however.

Use properly attached ends (hooks or eyes) on cables, don't just wrap it aound something and then tie a big granny knot in the end of the cable.

Don't wray a cable around a metal object with sharp corners.

If you have been dragging the hook on your cable against the pavement for the last 50 miles, replace the hook. If you think having a broken cable whistling through the air is bad, imagine a full-length one with a weight on the end of it doing the same thing!

If towing something, try to have the bulk of the vehicle as a safety barrier between you and the cable. Never stand next to or walk alongside a cable, chain or tow rope under tension. They all want to become a wire saw when they grow up.

Wear gloves when handling cables, those little wire ends bite.

Be leery of the advertised load ratings on cheap come-alongs.

It isn't the high injury and fatality rates on farms that are surprising; it is the fact that they aren't actually higher.

[Joefish]

Now here is something I know about.

Its hard to tell from your pics but if you bolt on a good hood and check the gap on the rt fender and its good you can fix this by spliceing in the new parts allong the spot welds just as you were thinking

but if the gap is big in back and tight or overlaping the hood at the rt fender your not pulling that with any comealong

that is a intersting body work site,,lots of good info there.

Good luck with your repair,,sounds like you have the determination to get it done

Hay Spanky sounds like you have fixed as many wrecks as I have :-)

[Spanky]

Joe,my whole life's a wreck...

[313ryans]

[QUOTE=Joefish]Now here is something I know about.

Its hard to tell from your pics but if you bolt on a good hood and check the gap on the rt fender and its good you can fix this by spliceing in the new parts allong the spot welds just as you were thinking

but if the gap is big in back and tight or overlaping the hood at the rt fender your not pulling that with any comealong

that is a intersting body work site,,lots of good info there.

Good luck with your repair,,sounds like you have the determination to get it done

...Thanks for the tip, I will pick up a hood from a junkyard on my winter break. Time and weather permitting that is.

Not that I can tackle this project in the middle of winter, but if more photos will help I can post more. Just have to wrestle with file sizes a little.

I was only going to use the comealong to pull the radiator support forward, and then the corner of the crumpled inner fender. If it is worse than that I will part it out and wait for a good project 240sx on ebay. They often go cheap because guys get started on Skyline and Silvia engine swaps and run out of time and money. Never seen one like that in MI though.

[Joefish]

Joe,my whole life's a wreck...

Hay Spanky

mine too ,,I remedber when I loved to fix wrecks but I am older and well I forget the rest.

[Peter Miles]

I picked these short cables up at Boeing Surplus last week. The attached metal tags say that they are rated at 3900 pounds each.

http://www.metalmeet.com/photopost/data/3347/medium/Boeing_Surplus_March_2006_-_Cables.JPG
I don't plan on doing any panel straightening with them,

http://www.metalmeet.com/photopost/data/3183/medium/Hoisting_English_Wheel_Frame_2_.JPG

but they will allow me to do a safer, more balanced lifting job on things like this English Wheel frame than I did on this lift.