Question for Kerry

[roberlt]

I just recieved the Jan/Feb issue of The Home Shop Machinist mag.

The cover story is "Build an English wheel" Some(actualy a lot) of the ideas presented I am underwhelmed with.

Since I don't build E-wheels on a ongoing basis I would like to get the opinion of someone who has experance doing this. Since I have used your wheels at 2 different regional MM (and was impressed with them) I figured I would ask you.

If you can't find this mag. at a local store I could send you a copy. Please PM me if you need this done.

Thinks,

Rob

[Kerry Pinkerton]

Hi Robert, I've never seen that magazine locally. The only 'build' article I've seen was in Street Rodder a couple years back. Some guy bought a kit for a "John Glover" style machine..the large frame with trusses and strongbacks. Only problem was that he built a 48" throat machine from 2x2x1/8" wall tubing!!!!!!!!

But then he redeemed himself by filling it with sand to "make it stiffer". (Just in case, sand will dampen sound but not stiffen a frame)

The sad thing is how many folks consider that anything in a 'mainstream' magazine to be Gospel.

[edwardd_]

I have not seen the issue yet.

But, did it discuss using what you built? Big difference!

[kustomizingkid]

That article in street rodder is how I found this site, in a very inderect way that is. I remember reading and thinking what the heck is an english wheel? So I did what I usualy do when I want to find out about something, I googled it and found this site.

Brandon McCarthy

[Kerry Pinkerton]

Robert, you asked for my 2Cents so here it is....

I received a PDF of this article and read through it. It's multi-part with this month being an overview and a material list. I guess construction begins next issue.

The machine has some interesting features such as a shaft that allows the upper wheel to be 'driven' by a handwheel or power for use as a bead roller. Apparently, it's designed for 6" anvils (or bead roller dies $$$$$ ). It uses a toggle clamp on a square 'dovetail' on the top wheel for a quick release (neat idea) but the main adjuster is a lower kickwheel. With a lower adjuster, there are simpler ways to do a quick release. It has round tube for the backbone 6" schedule 60. Throat about 48" I'm guessing. The top and bottom arms are 2x6x1/4" doubled with 2x2 stiffners (strongbacks). I doubt it's as stiff as the author seems to think.

I'm not a fan of kickwheel machines but that's just my personal opinion.

It's a tripod foot machine but the two legs are in the front where I'd trip over them. (dang bifocals).

The article says it can be built for about $700 in materials. There is a LOT of machine work (which is what I'd expect from a home machinist magazine http://metalmeet.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif ) which appears to be of high quality. Without any construction details yet posted, I'd bet he has 80-120+ hours in the machine.

I'd think one could build a better machine for less if you were willing to make your own non-heat treated anvils. I've made my last anvil. Hoosiers are just so good and reasonable it just doesn't make economic sense to me. The stiffer the machine, the more concentric the rollers have to be or they will make thin/thick spots in the panels. Not too long ago I put one of my last homemade anvils on a Model 32. It was a pretty humbling experience. The anvil was about .003 out and you could feel each 'lump'.

[roberlt]

My major concern is also the stiffness of the machine.

The toggle clamp is neat but I worry about strength also the idea that the top wheel be hard chromed and ground...???

Thanks for your review.

Rob

[Kerry Pinkerton]

My major concern is also the stiffness of the machine.

The toggle clamp is neat but I worry about strength also the idea that the top wheel be hard chromed and ground...???

Thanks for your review.

Rob

Yeah, I'd think that would be much like case hardening. Hard outer shell but softer middle. Like an egg. Under heavy pressure the surface can crack.

[captainkirk]

I don't think hard chroming would work it will likely not stay attached to the surface under repeated rolling it will likely just flake off. Mostly hard chrome is used when rubbing wear is encountered like on fork tubes for motorcycles it works great as a wiping surface for seals and such.
Surface hardening will work much better under heavy loading like what is encountered in wheeling.
MHO
Kirk

[Doug98105]

Hard chrome sounds like a good idea to me.

The hard chroming process has the advantage of not distorting the part like through heat treatment or surface hardening. I'm fairly sure it's used in heavy rolling applications, never heard of it flaking off like decorative chrome will do.

For sure, hard chrome is much harder than other options.

[captainkirk]

This is an excerpt from a web site that specializes in applied finishes.

Hard Chrome Plating

Most people would not be very familiar with hard chrome plating. Hard chromium plating is chrome plating that has been applied as a fairly heavy coating (usually measured in thousandths of an inch) for wear resistance, lubricity, oil retention, and other 'wear' purposes. Some examples would be hydraulic cylinder rods, rollers, piston rings, mold surfaces, thread guides, gun bores, etc. 'Hard chrome' is not really harder than other chrome plating, it is called hard chromium because it is thick enough that a hardness measurement can be performed on it and the chrome hardness can be measured, whereas thinner plating will break like an eggshell if a hardness test is conducted, so its hardness can't really be measured directly.

Hard chrome plating is almost always applied to items that are made of steel, usually hardened steel. It is metallic in appearance but is not particularly reflective or decorative. Hard chrome plating is not a finish that you would want on a wheel or bumper.

There are variations even within hard chrome plating, with some of the coatings optimized to be especially porous for oil retention, etc.

I believe that hard chroming won't stand up to "impact" related wear but is rather used for bearing type wear surfaces.
They also state that it is most times applied to "hardened surfaces" If your going to harden the surface of the wheel to begin with it would then be a moot point to hard chrome plate it except for corrosion issues.
Just my opinion maybe it would work, but it would likely cost more than heat treating and grinding the finish would cost. If you have the money to spend and want to give it a try let us know how it works out for you.
Kirk

[RexWorks]

I have read the article in Home Shop Machinist and was interested in some of the ideas but overall the machine was a little too big for my needs.
I started building a machine very similar to the one Anders built based on the Kerry/Wray design. The adjuster is completed.
I plan to section the lower arm to get the required taper, probably because that is the way I started thinking about it. There are obviously other ways to build the same thing.
Should this lower arm be made from individual plates or is my sectioning idea going to work? I like the idea of keeping the corners consistant.
Rex Perry

[Kerry Pinkerton]

I section my lower arms and weld them back together.