Newbie needs advice on tool to use for bending stainless sheet metal

[azw]

I'm wondering which tool to try to make some sheet metal bends.

Here's the project
I'm using 24 ga. stainless sheet to make a rectangular cover that looks a lot like a mansard roof (it'll have 4 sloping planes rising to a peak at the top). There will be 4 pieces, each about 30" x 12". I'll need to bend two ~45 degree angles parallel to each other but in opposite directions. On each side (perpendicular to the 45-degree bends), there will be a 90-degree (or a little less) bend in order to box in the sides.

Tools I'm considering
I'm looking at options Harbor Freight offers. (Yes, I realize these won't be pro quality.)

30" bending brake:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=41311

18" throat bead roller:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=34104

heavier 6 1/2" throat bead roller:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=41081

The question
The bead rollers seem like a much more flexible tool. I've seen images on this forum of bead rollers that can bend 45-degree angles. Can the dies that come with either of these bead rollers can handle 45 or 90-degree bends in the middle of a sheet? (i.e. not just narrow flanges at the edge?)

Or should I use a bending break for the long, parallel 45-degree bends and do the shorter 90-degree side bends by hand?

By the way, I've spent many enjoyable hours reading posts on this forum. What a great resource this is!
Art

[gator 1]

First let me welcome you to metalmeet. Glad to see you jumping into a project and not just learning.

Now to answer your question. Look outside the box a little bit. Will this be the only project you plan to do. If so then buy the tool to fit the job. However if you plan on doing things in the future you may want to rethink your list and buy something that will work now and in the future. Tools are expensive to begin with so why buy them twice.

Now if your like some of us on here, I need a red one for even numbered days and a blue one for odd numbered days. A green one for leap year and a yellow one for holidays..LOL LOl..:D :lol: :twisted:

[azw]

Thanks for the welcome Gator 1. Hey, I like your reasoning! I'll mention that part about the colors to my wife, as she likes a variety of colors, too!

So what type of tool would be best for just this job and what type of tool would be more useful in the long run? (Or maybe you were saying buy better quality and either tool would do the job?)

I don't do a lot of sheet metal work, only once or twice a year, but I enjoy working with metal so having the right tool might spur me to do it more often.

[Gonejunking]

Hi Art, Welcome to Metalmeet!
The little bench top brake that you show, won't help you much, and the 6" bead roller would be my choice of all the tool's. To make the 90 deg bend's, you'll need a tipping wheel for it. Look around this site for the tipping wheel thread, you may be able to make one yourself.

Good Luck

[azw]

Hi, Jeffrey,

Are you thinking of the thread here?
http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3259&highlight=tipping+wheel
That's pretty intriguing.

The dies in the two Harbor Freight beading rollers are quite different.

The 41081 has these:
http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1059&stc=1

The 34104 has shearing mandrels and these dies:
http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1060&stc=1

I wonder if the 41080's Turning Die A would work with a skateboard wheel as a tipping wheel? The tipping wheel in the thread above seems to come to a sharper point.

Or maybe it'd be better to just ask Joe Andrews to make up a set for me?

Art

[Bob Baisden]

Art,

Check out my photo gallery. I've only tipped aluminum, but it worked well.http://www.metalmeet.com/photopost/data/3623/medium/17broller4.jpg

http://www.metalmeet.com/photopost/data/3623/medium/173b.jpg

http://www.metalmeet.com/photopost/data/3623/medium/1713b.jpg

[azw]

Thanks, that's interesting, Bob. It looks like you're using the Harbor Freight Bead Roller #41081.

What are you using for the upper die? Is that One of the stock turning dies that come with the 41081?

Did you have to do anything besides drill out the skateboard wheel to get it to work? Do you know what size skateboard wheel you used?

Art

[Gonejunking]

Hi Art

The turning die A should work as a tipping die. You can use a skateboard wheel or any other urathane wheel for the lower die.

[Bob Baisden]

Hi Art,

The bead roller is the hf 41081 and die came with it. The skate board wheel came off the cheapest skate board at target.:smile:

Bob

[azw]

This is excellent! Thanks, guys,
Art

[Doug98105]

Art,

A couple things to consider.....

24ga (.024") stainless is approximately equivalent to 50% thicker mild steel in bending. So 24ga SS equates to 20ga (.036") mild steel.

The 30" HF brake mentioned is rated at 17ga (.054"?) mild steel. If we can believe their ratings, this tool will handle the bending just fine.

The 6-1/2" throat bead roller is rated 22ga. That rating will be slightly reduced by the usage of the urethane wheel since some force is needed to distort the urethane to form the metal. This tool would be working over it's rated capacity.

I suggest the brake as the best choice for your job. It's less money and will do the job "out of the box". The rolling machine needs mods (urethane wheel) and requires a bit of practise/skill to tip a perfectly straight 30" line.

Doug

[gator 1]

This is where i was going. If you by a brake that is rated for 24 guage that will work for this job thats great. What if the next project requires you to bend 20 gauge. I know this can go on forever but the brakes that do 16 gauge are not that much more, will do your current job and let you grow in the future. I try to never buy a tool that is limited to the current job.

I find that once i get the current job done i want a bigger challenge and im ready to move on to bigger and better things. Its nice to buy once and use a lot than to buy a lot and use once..Gator;)

[Bob Baisden]

Doug,

Rated capacity?? lol. Did you look at the picture? Its cast iron and the throat is only 6.5 inches. If your tipping an edge, most of the effort is in picking up on the sheet and bending against the tipping die. If you want a straight line, use the fence.

Bob

[Doug98105]

Doug,

Rated capacity?? lol. Did you look at the picture? Its cast iron and the throat is only 6.5 inches. If your tipping an edge, most of the effort is in picking up on the sheet and bending against the tipping die. If you want a straight line, use the fence.

Bob

Bob,

They must have rated it that way for a reason. Usually the third world stuff is over rated, maybe this can't safely even do 22ga?

Their design is a rough knockoff of the Pexto #622, also rated 22ga. I've seen a bunch of Pexto's that were broken from rolling too heavy material. In another recent thread Peter Miles showed his humongous Pexto rolling machine with a repair of the broken casting, not uncommon.

I just thought of another reason why I wouldn't want to tip an edge with this machine...it's a two person job, one cranking, one feeding.

I'm not against using a rolling machine with a tipping wheel setup, it's just that if there ever was an ideal use for a brake, this is it. Art could buy the brake for a third the cost, do the job and be done. And, if for some reason the brake won't bend the material take it back.

That's nicely done motorized setup you have. Have you tried it on heavier material, how about 18ga mild steel?

Doug

[Bob Baisden]

I agree, for a nice straight bend I would use the brake. Definitely wouldn't use a bead roller without a slow slow motor and foot pedal.

I'm not worried about using the bead roller on standard metalshaping gage metal. This roller is a nice tool for the price. I'll try tipping 16 gage tonite.

Bob

[azw]

Hello, again. You've all raised good points. I've ordered both and I'll try the brake first. That certainly would be easier to use.

Bob, how was it tipping the 16 ga sheet with the 41081?

Also what's the diameter on the tipping wheel (HF's turning die set A)? Maybe I match that wheel and the diameter of the skateboard wheel.

Thanks!
Art

[Bob Baisden]

Hi Art,

The diameter is 2 inches. The beader tipped 16 gage great. Only problem was near the end of panel where I started to lose leverage. The bend was more of a roll at the end.

Bob

[azw]

That's great, Bob. Thanks for measuring the wheel. If the machine could handle 16 ga, there's a good chance it'd be able to handle the 24 ga stainless....as long as I can pick up the skills.

I wonder if you could gradually ease up on the tension on the rollers toward the end of the piece? (Of course, you'd probably need 4 hands!)

The brake sounds a lot easier to handle, doesn't it?

Art

[azw]

There has been some discussion of the real capacity of the Harbor Freight tools. It seems like even HF isn't sure.

After considering earlier messages here, I've changed my order to a heavier 40" HF brake for $140. I've chosen the 46508 (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=46508) for which the catalog description says:
"Capacity: 40'' wide stock x 16 gauge steel".

The 46508's manual, on the other hand, says it can handle up to 40" width of 24 gauge cold-rolled steel.

That's a huge difference, unless I'm missing something. Is there a difference between "cold-rolled steel" and "steel"? Aren't these both mild steel?


The description for the $57 30" brake I had first ordered, the 41311 (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=41311), says:
"Capacity: 30'' wide stock x 17 gauge steel". That seems dubious given that the brake's shipping weight is 29#, but at least the manual agrees with the catalog description.


To further illustrate this confusion at Harbor Freight...
for the 91012 (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?function=Search), a more expensive $200 36" brake with a stand (with a slightly lighter overall weight), the catalog descriptions says:
"Bends mild steel as thick as 12 gauge, stainless steel as thick as 16 gauge".

That doesn't sound credible. Sure enough, the manual for the 91012 says it can handle:
"--Up to 12 gauge sheet metal at 18" width
--Up to 16 gauge sheet metal at 36" width
--Up to 22 gauge mild steel
--Up to 26 gauge stainless steel"

Unless there's a difference between "sheet metal" and "mild steel", I'm guessing that we can trust the last two lines as being closer to reality.

[sherwoodchoppers]

i bought the same sheetmetal brake a few years ago and unless u drill holes to have it clamp down which would limit the thickness because of the end not bien able to fit between the top rail and the piece that comes up. Its not that great and the handles arent attached so u have 2 weld them on. I wanst that happy with it but what do u expect for like 30$ off ebay and 60 bucks is way to much. u can make 1 by takin some angle iron and putin a awivel on it and adding a top piece, levers, and legs.


Dont buy what u can make urself a lot better and a lot cheaper!

Hope this helps, Patrick

[azw]

Hello, again,

I have two questions about the 41081 Rotary Machine (bead roller) and 46508 Bending Brake.

On the Rotary Machine, I have one part I can't figure out what to do with. It's a 3.7mm wide blackplastic knob on an 8mm diameter / 1.25 pitch x 2.6mm stut. There's only one hole on the machine that I see it could fit (on the side, perpendicular to the "B" adjusting nut). But it doesn't seem to do anything there.

Is this just a superfluous part?

On the Bending Brake, the instructions say to use C clamps to secure the work piece. The instructions call for leaving a 1/8" -3/16" gap for 24 ga material. At least with thin stock, it looks like I can simply use the Pressing Plate (#4) to put pressure on the stock I'm bending.

What is the purpose of the gap they want? Does it keep the bend from tearing the metal? Is it less important with thin stock?

Thanks!