fay butler classes

[fab23]

I was just wondering if anyone has taken a fay butler class and what they though of it. I have taken it once and really learnd alot. It was very good information on working with commpresive forces.

[planemech302003]

Hi Fab 23. I took Fay's course about 5 years ago, and learned so much, I couldn't take it all in. I still have, and use all my notes. IMHO, it's a great class because it gives the student a real insight into what's happening with the metal during forming. The method of forming really doesn't make any difference whether be machine or by hand. Great class!!! John

[Jason93]

A few years ago I looked into taking a class there as well. I asked around and spoke to Fay and he is definately knowledgeable. My only concern was that I would learn too much about the processes and intricacies of metal rather than the metalshaping itself.
I think I'm a Type A personality and I am very impatient so when I wanted to start metalshaping I didnt want to learn all about metal first, I just wanted to shape. I'm probably missing a lot on the craft because of it, but I choose to come here and learn for a fraction of the cost and I did attend Wray's class here which was considerably less and I thought I gained a great deal of knowledge. I think its great to hear all the feedback of the different classes we take, it provides valuable insight to other members who also may consider a class. How much of the class was hands on shaping there? I'm curious. Thanks.

[Kerry Pinkerton]

I've never met Fay but did buy his Planishing Hammer book. I've heard nothing but good things about him though. However, one of the fairly inexperienced guys at MM05 said something interesting. He had been to one of Fay's classes earlier in the year. His comments were to the effect that the main thrust was power hammers and pullmaxes with a fair amount of theory thrown in. Since he had neither and was not likely to get either in the near future he was disappointed in what he could take away from the class and put to use.

His comment after the first day of MetalMeet was that he learned more in one day at MM05 that he could actually use than in the class.

Fay is the Pope of the Hammer Church. Again, I've never attended his class but I've been told by several folks that Fay teaches you need to hit/shock the metal into it's "Plastic" state in order to have a stress free panel. Since power hammers and Pullmax type machines are not in the budget for everyone, I have a problem signing up for that church. I have some pretty stress free panels (if flexibility is any measure) that were made with nothing but a bag, some hand held hammers, tucking forks, and an Ewheel. The 'church' that follows this approach that is more to my liking. Opinions, everyone has one! That's mine. Not necessarily right, just mine.

And just to clarify, Helve Hammers (Pioneered for sheet metal work by Wray Schelin) is not to be confused with a power hammer. Different critters completely!

[rkolenda]

Hi, I took a 1 day seminar that Fay did here in michigan last january and I found it very informative.Fay shows all forms of shaping using all sorts of tools. He convinced me that you can shape metal without power equipment.He used a hot glued cardboard buck,made a paper patern, cut a tear drop blank,then he grabbed a carpenters claw hammer,used the nail pulling end to form tucks ,shrank them with a peen hammer ,streched the center over a shot bag. The only power tool he used was a planishing hammer.In a very short time he had formed the top of a motorcycle gas tank. He showed me I could shape metal using what I have.I plan to take his other course some time soon. Bob.

[tdoty]

Pullmax type machines are not in the budget for everyone

Some of us know better than that :lol: !

Tim D.

[Boogiemanz1]

Guys, I'm sure that Fay is a fine teacher, but if you ever experience a MetalMeet like MM05, and participate, then you will have something to compare it to...............john

[Hairy-Neil]

Since power hammers and Pullmax type machines are not in the budget for everyone.........

One just sold on Ebay for right money......http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7553584147&ssPageName=ADME:B:EOIBSA:UK:11

And with a heap of tooling too. ;)

[tdoty]

One just sold on Ebay for right money......http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7553584147&ssPageName=ADME:B:EOIBSA:UK:11

And with a heap of tooling too. ;)

Woulda killed the budget to have it shipped to my shop though :lol: ! I'll stick to building my own, that I can move with my own truck :D ! Nice score though!

Tim D.

[Farrell]

I went to Fay's seminar after asking Jesse James who to see. His words, "Fay is the man, you won't be dissapointed", he was right. It lasts 3 days and is expensive, but how do you put a price on knowledge and the experience? It changed my life, literally..I've come away with a whole different perspective on metalshaping, and the science of the process. Fay Butler is without question, one of the most influencial people I've ever met, he knows how to mold a craftsman and teach him how it should be approached, what to do when he's in trouble, and how to get out. I'm still shaping with a wheel, but desperately striving to get a Yoder, It's my goal, and I will own one, someday.
All of the great shapers that I know of and have admired over the years have been to Fay for training.
He is also a great person, his wife Phyllis...man, she knows how to cook!http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k181/51gringo/AtFaysMay2010121.jpg
Max Farrell.

[customotorsinc]

I am in Boston for the summer, so I stopped into Fays shop for a quick visit when I was out and about on a Saturday. The quick stop turned into a 3 hour visit, which actually felt a little bit like a job interview. Being a young college student, he grilled me with questions about my philosophical beliefs of the pursuit of knowledge. He showed me around the shop, let me play around with the wheel in there, showed me a little about shaping dies and whatnot.
This quick visit was definitely a life changing event. His teaching method is effective. I consider him to be as much as a philosopher as a metalshaper. I was incredibly impressed with his presentation of ideas. He challenged many of my beliefs and practices and inspired me to occupy my time with creative tasks. It was nice to have someone not afraid to point out your flaws and areas for improvement.

After listening to my story of how I became interested in metalshaping and what little experience I had, this was his advice: Buy a sewing machine.

I discussed a seminar with him, I plan on doing one, but not for a little while, as it is very expensive. I am sure it is worth it though.

Also, I have both his books. They are INCREDIBLY helpful. Great drawings and graphics.

-Parker

[Bill Gibson]

I have never taken Fay's class, but I talked at length with him and listened to him talking to several other people at Hershey last year. He is very knowlegable and definitely believes that you need to know what is happening to the metal at the molecular level. He feels that with that kind of knowledge you can form better strategies to solve a problem when you encounter it or make a better plan for your shaping project.
I would say whether to take Fay's class over one with more shaping content rather than theory, depends on several things. One thing being your own personality type. Are you someone who feels the need to know everything about a subject before you get into doing it, or are you a learn by doing personality. Can you sit still for the class room part of the class that long.
Another thing would be, where are you in your experience level. If you have been shaping for a while and have questions about what you are doing and why it works, then Fay's class should clear up some mysteries.
I have attended many seminars where someone will explain something that I have been doing but didn't really know why. And when they explain it, there is this AHaaaa moment where it all becomes clear and suddenly a multitude of other doors are opened because you understand the process, and can now visualize other options.
Shop around and think about what type of class is best for you. I think Fay's class definitely fills a need, but it may not be right for everyone at every time in their career.

[Sollis]

i know Fay but i never been to his class i will visit one day
i talk to him about metalurgy i learn some on my own here what i found on you tube this guy have old videos on edge and screw dislocation check all his videos there is more videos by other people but his video are best , i would recomend learn about metal structures before going to Fays class there is lots info on line i have metalurgy book but i found lots info on line also
anual metal meet good also
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqHoNzWTaGI&NR=1

[nightperson]

what is the cost for the 3 days? i am considering going late summer when it warms up

[Pete's Metalshaping]

what is the cost for the 3 days? i am considering going late summer when it warms up

You might call Fay with that question, regarding cost. If you are seriously thinking about taking his class, he still might have a waiting list. I talked to him in December and got into a class in June. At that time he only had one class per month, with three students per class.

[RockHillWill]

I just returned from the 3-day class at Fays and can tell you that he is one impressive and knowledgeable guy! I was able to wrangle my way into a class earlier than his waiting list would have normally been. He has an enormous amount of info regarding what happens to metal as it undergoes the shaping process, and if you try to grasp those ideas, it makes your thinking change regarding how you might approach a project from the start or from a 'problem' standpoint. I am still trying to re-type my notes to make sure that I glean as much from them as I can.

As someone mentioned, he is as much into metallurgy as he is into metal shaping, and that gave me a different approach to working on my own projects, which are mostly Model A fender and panel repairs. He has no negative feelings regarding how any one shapes metal, and suggests that any way you do it that gets you the results you want is correct. He seemed very open minded as to other folks approach, but after reviewing his metallurgical presentation, it become clear why he does it the way he does. My back ground is in racing and machine design, and his approach to powered equipment was immediately appealing to me for that reason alone, but using the power hammer did seem to get the results much quicker than other approaches that I have used previously.

It was some what expensive, but I able to do it at that time due to a cash 'windfall' and the timing coincided with another trip at the same time, and I would consider it a life altering experience regarding my metal shaping enthusiasm. He was able to open my eyes to the fact that a lot of what I have learned from other folks, particularly at the MetalMeets and folks like Kerry Pinkerton, Dan Shady, Gator and others was very rellavent, but I did not know exactly why some of what they were teaching me worked. It gave me a new respect for they were willing to share.

While most of the time was spent on the power hammer, the planishing hammer and the Pullmax, I did get to use the original John Glover english wheel as well. John gave it to Fay when he 'retired'. Much time was spent showing correct ways to use, shape and modify tools for your personal use and his instructions regarding TIG welding improved my skills dramatically. My main project resulted in a huge fender repair area in a Model A rear fender that resulted in a weld seam that was about 36 inches long and it planished out with no using a grinder at all.

I would highly recommend his class if you can get in a position to do so.

[Sollis]

Thats great !

[welderboy]

Fay knows metal shaping. I attended his seminar in Oct. 10'. I was highly dissapointed as we discussed my project for several months and I was lead to believe his seminar was a workshop to build a project and mine was a good one. He called three days before I left west coast with my family and said maybe the project wasn't the right one for the seminar. This is after three months of dialog and two care packages with the scope of my project. He did make it right after the seminar...with some arm twisting by my wife. I have also attended Kent Whites seminar in Nevada City a few years ago. I must say I enjoyed both teachers, but I hope Fay will not lead others to believe something that isn't so in the future. I would have still went to his seminar....he just made me think it was gonna be something it wasn"t.

[bobadame]

I'll be attending Fay's seminar this coming weekend at WyoTech Street Rod in Laramie Wy. For years I've read about the "how to". Looking forward to learning the "why". One thing I want to ask him about the power hammers is why do the machines need to be so massive. I suspect that if the spring was a more efficient design and if the crank was turned 90 degrees that the machince could be made much lighter. Anybody have any thoughts on this.

I'm afraid that I'll want to build one after the attending his seminar.

[Sollis]

all i know about thoughts its like verbal masturbation till you tried

[RockHillWill]

Bobadame'

If you really get the bug, like I did, and want to build one I would be more than willing to share my experiences with you if you thought it would be of any help.

The reciprocating design for the Metalcraft / Mittler Brothers power hammer were from Fays design, and he would be happy to share with you his ideas as well.

I find him to be extremely intellectual and willing to share all that you ask.

The metallurgical portion of his seminar was the most interesting and thought provoking, and I was admittedly a little slow in that area, but bought the book he recommended and am learning more each time I look at it.

Please, let us all know how you liked the seminar.

[bobadame]

Will, thanks very much for your offer to share information. Maybe when I'm retired or at least down to just one job. I think this machine would be a fun one to get involved with.