Shaping with air Planisher

[Doug Strong]

Like Ron Simmons, who posts on this board, I make suits of armour.
I have had a air plannisher for about a year now and I love it for smootthing my roughed out work. When I look at what the custom motorcycle and automotive workers are doing with it I get the impression that they are actually shaping the metal with this tool. If that is so, how does one go about doing this? I'd love to expand what I do with it. Unlike Ron, who works in very thick metal, I tend to work in 20 -16 gague. Is this too thick to do metal forming with it?

Sorry for the broad question.

Doug Strong

[87gtmustang]

Shaping is definetly possible with most units. The thickness you are working with is very well within the shapeable category, although 16 gauge needing a stronger unit. Lots of times what you see the motorcycle sheetmetal shapers doing, for example making a tank, they will roughly stretch out the tank with a mallet and sandbag, and then stick it on the planishing hammer to smooth it out, and for final shapeing. Since some areas of the tank need lots of shapeing, that is the best and fastest way to do it. You could do it all without presretching with the shotbag, but it would take quite abit more time. The only thing you really need to do, to do more shapeing than planishing with your unit, is turn up the power and let it go to town! You will also probably want to use a fairly crowned radius to help with the stretching and shaping. Good luck!

Brian =)

[Doug Strong]

Thanks for the response. Would a heavier duty air compressor produce more force or a longer run before recharging or both?

[jlrussell4]

Hi Doug,
The amount of air used is dependent on the tool. A large tank will last longer before needing to be recharged. A "stronger" air compressor will recharge the tank faster. Does this help you ?

[FriarTuck]

From what I've read and seen, if you want to "shape" as opposed to "planish" you need a heavier air hammer, with harder blows, longer stroke, that sort of thing. Planishing is done with less force, shorter strokes, don't really want to "stretch" as much as you want to "smooth" the metal. Being able to vary the pressure between the dies is important also. More pressure gives you more "shaping". I'm not talking from a lot of experience here, just what I have gathered here on MetalMeet in the forums.
If you get tired of beating a sand bag, there is always the Helve Hammer. Not really great at "planishing" though.:lol:
Hope this helps...

[kkathary]

In the true sense of what a planishing hammer is I would say no. Planish means to smooth by hammering. Not to shape. It can be done, but unless you have a very large industrial air compressor, most air hammers will run an air compressor to death. And most of the guys selling on ebay will run their machines at 125 PSI, which is ridiculous if you ask me. A cp will do a superb job at 100 PSI. I very rarely run mine that high. 85-90 is nice for smoothing. Also using a high crown anvil at high PSi leaves a terrible texture on the metal. You also end up with a very uneven stretch. Better to use a fairly low crown anvil in it and be patient. I think everyone wants to shape with a planishing hammer because power hammers are so expensive and most people percieve an english wheel as to slow. Build a helve hammer. For the simplicity, and quick learning curve you can't beat it. Also a well engineered helve is more versatile than any other metalshaping machine there is. Jim Bailie has made his helve so it can use all of his pullmax dies, do heavy shaping, and planish just as well as a planishing hammer or wheel. Also shaping 16G with anything but power tools will wear your ass out in a hurry.

Kyle

[anders nørgaard]

Hi Kyle,

Great post with a lot of good info!
Well.... guess I'll have to find a big air motor http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/images/icons/icon10.gif http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/images/icons/icon10.gif
Just "stole" this compressor http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/images/icons/icon6.gif 3.5 hp, 380 volts, 2 cyl. 135 gal. tank..... 80 buckshttp://www.metalmeet.com/forum/images/icons/icon10.gifhttp://www.metalmeet.com/forum/images/icons/icon6.gif


http://www.metalmeet.com/photopost/data/500/Kompressop_1.jpg


http://www.metalmeet.com/photopost/data/500/Kompressor_2.jpg

I'd go for the helve too. (Or my Anders Hammer) Just couldn't resist the opportunity to brag about this great deal/trade I just made!!!!

[Pedalcar]

Hi Anders ,

i think you have to get all your neighbours flash lights and candle because when

you fire this thing up the will go down in your street,http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/images/icons/icon10.gifhttp://www.metalmeet.com/forum/images/icons/icon10.gifhttp://www.metalmeet.com/forum/images/icons/icon10.gifhttp://www.metalmeet.com/forum/images/icons/icon10.gif:lol::lol:

:lol:
Ben

[anders nørgaard]

Hey Buddy,

Don't think it will be much of a problem.............. I've got a "dug down" basement below my garage and that's where I intend to install my compressor http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/images/icons/icon10.gif Shouldn't make much "outdoor noise"http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/images/icons/icon6.gif http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/images/icons/icon6.gif http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/images/icons/icon6.gif http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/images/icons/icon6.gif

Edit: Sorry Ben, didn't get your point the 1s t time http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/images/icons/icon11.gif http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/images/icons/icon11.gif http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/images/icons/icon11.gif
Naaaaah.... 3.5 hp "star" connected... wouldn't eat that much powerhttp://www.metalmeet.com/forum/images/icons/icon10.gif

[1969robinhood]

Hey there Anders....

I like you "mobile stand " you have there for the compressor,...looks like some of my handy work there...LOL>>>:lol: :lol:

[FriarTuck]

Hope you have a "hatch" to lower it into the basement. Wouldn't want to see it "get away" going down the stairs. ;) That thing's as big as a torpedo.
Later

[anders nørgaard]

Hi Matt,

The "mobile stand" was just a "device" to get the thing off of the trailer http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/images/icons/icon10.gif http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/images/icons/icon10.gif http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Ernie Ferrucci]

Hi Anders

Looks like yo made a winner http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif, you couldn't get it for $75.00 http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/images/icons/icon5.gif, just kidding :lol: :lol: .
I curious, what voltage do you have in your shop (home)? I thought the average European outlet was 220 volts. Here the average household outlet is 115 volts, (some people refer to it as 110, some 120) and the feed to the home is 220 volts. Some of the larger appliances run on 220 volts, like stoves, clothes dryers, air conditioning, etc. Three Phase and 440 volts are only found in industrial services. How is electric power distributed in Denmark ?

Ernie F.

[tdoty]

I curious, what voltage do you have in your shop (home)? I thought the average European outlet was 220 volts. Here the average household outlet is 115 volts, (some people refer to it as 110, some 120) and the feed to the home is 220 volts. Some of the larger appliances run on 220 volts, like stoves, clothes dryers, air conditioning, etc. Three Phase and 440 volts are only found in industrial services. How is electric power distributed in Denmark ?

Ernie F.


Actually, the larger appliances are fed something closer to 208 volts (it all varies according to load, supply, time of day, etc.) 3 phase 208 is available in many areas, particularly to "farmers" (cuz you only have to "farm" something, nothing particular, in some areas), not just industrial applications.

Anders gave me all of the Euro specs a while back, but I'd have to search them out again to be able to be sure of anything. One of our European machines has a transformer to step up to 575 3-phase.

440 is actually a bit of a rarity in my parts, it's all 480 3-phase .............. which is 277 to ground on each leg, 480 phase to phase. 440, 460, 480 are all pretty much interchangeable. Same with single phase 208, 220, 230 and 240. 3-phase 220 seems to run about the same - 208, 220, 230, 240.

That's a basic synopsis of electricity as it applies where I work :lol: Ya know, for an electrician, I don't know much about electricity - do I? :lol:

Tim D.

[Ernie Ferrucci]

Thanks Tim

Now I have to go out in the shop with a voltage meter to check out some wacky wiring I have :o .

Ernie F.

[anders nørgaard]

Tuck,

I don't have a hatch to the basement...... no stairs either... there's a "terrain ramp" along the side of the garagehttp://www.metalmeet.com/forum/images/icons/icon6.gif
My garden is "1 stock" lower than street level. That's why we made the basement. From the garden you can walk right into ithttp://www.metalmeet.com/forum/images/icons/icon10.gif

Tim & Ernie,
Here's a link to the post Tim refered to:
http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/showthread.php?p=31099#post31099

We have 220 single phase 10Amp and 3-phase 380 16Amp (in "normal" houses)http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Boogiemanz1]

Sound like a good deal on the compressor. I have 2 shop buildings 100 ft apart. I have considered putting the compressor in the one that I am using for storage and running air to my main shop through the 1/2 PVC I have buried between the two. The PVC shouldn't cause a problem underground. I'm sure I would have to run a couple of line dryers on it. But I would not have to hear it run anymore, and I am moving my glass beader cabinet over there.......................wonder if I would lose much pressure?................john

[anders nørgaard]

Hi John,

Yeah, I also thought it was a deal that I just couldn't let "slip away"http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/images/icons/icon6.gif
100 ft and 1/2" http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/images/icons/icon5.gif Maybe I'd go for 3/4... on the other hand, PVC has much less "flow resistance" than steel pipe, so it might workhttp://www.metalmeet.com/forum/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Hairy-Neil]

Tuck,

I don't have a hatch to the basement...... no stairs either... there's a "terrain ramp" along the side of the garagehttp://www.metalmeet.com/forum/images/icons/icon6.gif
My garden is "1 stock" lower than street level. That's why we made the basement. From the garden you can walk right into ithttp://www.metalmeet.com/forum/images/icons/icon10.gif



The house where I was born and spent my life up to mid twenties in sounds similar to that. The road out front was on like a causeway, the houses either side being down a hole. Research later showed the area to have been brick pits, the road remaining at the original level some 10 feet above the surrounding land. The local pub, The Brickmakers Arms gave the game away somewhat, though it has since been renamed.

[Kerry Pinkerton]

Doug, the air planisher is a stretching machine. Shaping metal is all about moving molecules around. You could beat on the metal with a feather and if you had enough feathers and enough lifetimes, you'd eventually put some shape in the metal.

Personally, I don't believe the lower cost planishing hammers have enough guts to do much shaping, especially in 16 ga. Working the shape by hand (stretching on the bag) would definitely be faster.

[tdoty]

Kerry, I'll argue that one 'round and round with you!!!!!!!

My little hammer (can't get much cheaper than that - total investment was about $12 ............ the rest was scrap). Now, I never tried 16, but I had heard over and over at MM04 how that little hammer was "too weak to work 18" - so I stood on it! Upped the pressure to 90 (I had used it mostly for planishing aluminum ........... at 40psi), opened the gap on the dies a bit ............... and proceeded to raise a helluva lump in a piece of 18 gauge in no time flat!

Maybe it's in the way you use it - I dunno. I do know it would have taken a bit more time (and a set of anvils Hoosier didn't make at the time) to raise a bulge that deep and relatively small. Give me a sandbag and one of my steel hammers and I could compete, but it wouldn't be as smooth.

Slightly less than acceptable for final planishing - 'specially compared to a wheel - but still workable. How does it work now? Haven't heard since I sold the noisy little bugger at MM04!

Tim D.