View Full Version : Excited but painfully
10-29-2004, 05:27 AM
Well this is my first post so i will not drone on. I have spent 3 days reading and educating myself in all the information i can. I have a small issue that i require help with but am unable to see the proper solution yet.
I own a 1965 Hillman Superminx Wagon. at present I have two issues.
1. The previous owner used house insulation within the rear quarter panels (i think he slept in it and was cold at night or did not like the road noise) anyway all this resulted in was retention of water and thus rusted out rear quarter bottoms. Quite bad actually... which where then repaired via BOG, or as you may refer to it as BONDO.
2. It looks like it has hit a tree at some stage in its life on the drivers front guard (Fender right side of car)
Now comes the hard bit and the direction I require. The front fender is welded on not bolted. And is bent reasonably badly. I suspect the best result is to make a buck and create a whole new guard but am unaware of how to create the buck if the panel is bent and creased. Secondly to create the rear quarters what is the best way to do this. the right hand side of the lower beaver panel is also rusted from the same issue so I except that i may need to make part of the lower beaver as well. The beaver I think should be easy once I A) have a Ewheel built (which I am in process of designing) and B) create a female buck on the left side and reverse it then create a male buck which would be the right hand side. but I am unable to do this for the quarters seeing they are missing and the fender mirror image puzzles me.
Thanks in advance for looking at this, any help would be greatly accepted :D :mrgreen: .
PS: If you are not sure what a Superminx looks like try this link...
http://www.motorsnippets.com/cars/RAF/1964-Hillman-Super-Minx2.htm While it is not mine it does give you a good view of what the rear and front contours are like. for the rear I am missing from teh ridge down between the wheel arch and the rear of the vehicle and the front has been torn and squashed between the wheel arch and the upward ridge to the headlight surround . Thanks again
10-29-2004, 06:41 AM
For starters on the rear panels, repair the best one with bondo to give you a proper panel to make a flexible shape pattern from and using the flexible shape pattern you can then fabricate a new steel repair panel for both sides.
Making Flexible Shape Patterns (http://people.delphiforums.com/snotzalot/body/paperpatterns.htm)
10-29-2004, 06:45 AM
Welcome to Metalmeet!
I friend of mine used to have that same car! He also hit a tree (passenger side).
I took some cardboard and cut it to fit the contour of the drivers fender, then flipped it over to make the passenger side. Mirror image! If you make a contour shape every 6 inches or so, you should be able to make a fairly good buck. It'll work on the rear fenders also.
You say the fender is welded on? Spot welds?
On the one I worked on, it was spot welded. There is a drill on the market that drills out spot welds and leaves about a 1/2 inch (13mm) hole in the panel to weld the new panel to.
Just my 2c
10-29-2004, 06:57 AM
Thanks for your replies guys. Yes the fenders are spot welded on and then brazed on teh back bottom edge to stop it "waving in the wind". I have the tool you speak of already (but it is half the size.) getting the panel off is probably not the hardest thing to do, and all routes group vehicles of the 50's and 60's had there front fenders welded rather than bolted on. Are you suggesting that i remove both side to create the buck or just the damaged on and reverse contour the right hand side buck panel from teh left hand side.
No this is where i cannot get my head around the concept. terrific I go through the process of bondoing the best of the worse quarters in the world but have too issues firstly I do not have the all important ridge so not sure of the contour or how high/deep etc it is and secondly even if I do get the flexipanel (which I read about and am happy I could do it) how does that tell me the contours of the panel. sure it give me the flat panel cutout but what about the shape.
Should say i am a electrical engineer with mechanic interests and have quite a range of tools. I will eventually build the Ewheel to help smooth the panel and finish/planish it off but cannot grasp the idea of how a flexibale pattern gives the contours of the panel??
10-29-2004, 10:30 AM
Read again the flexible pattern link I gave you.
If you notice this photo you'll see the pattern gives you the cut out shape, and you'll also see it is raised up in the center. Using a hammer and beater bag you stretch your panel to raise up and meet your flexible pattern. This is the method most of us here on MetalMeet use to make a panel. It works well, it's easy to do, and you turn your pattern inside out and you have the pattern for the opposit side.
The ridge you are missing can be added to the panel made with bondo prior to making your flexible pattern.
10-29-2004, 10:07 PM
It may be easier to look at the quarter panel in major sections. I've broken the quarter up into 4 parts. Each part would be made and assembled (welded). The original was probably a two-piece stamping and seamed under the fin trim.
If you tackle the individual parts separately, the job doesn't overwhelm the newcomer. You'll need to practice your welding though. The best part about this quarter is that the major seams are almost all covered. Either by the trim or the tail lights.
If your fins are "missing", you may have to make your best effort and wing it. (No pun intended.)
10-30-2004, 02:06 AM
how does that tell me the contours of the panel. sure it give me the flat panel cutout but what about the shape.
The flexible tape pattern has all of the surface information required to reproduce your panel! (trust me it does 8) ) Get your self some tape and make a pattern, some sheet metal and try it out, you'll love the result.
Kens suggestion is good too, smaller part panels (for a beginner) is easier to do.
Please keep us informed of your project.
10-30-2004, 03:26 AM
The flexible pattern is an area map.
tells you the proper layout of the material in the part.
like if you wanted to match a flat surface like a sheet of paper on a sheet of paper. The second sheet of paper could have been warped or folded in the drawer but when you smooth it out it will fit the flat sheet exactly.
The same if you had two sections of the same sphere. If you had one that was cupped or twisted it could still be made round to match the other one because the area distribution was correct.
The flexible pattern lets you how to make a part that has the right geometry so you can tweek it to fit.
Positions of edges and other points are what a buck can tell you.
If you have the flexible surface map and you copy the area correctly, then you can drape the part on the buck and bend it to fit.
That is "bend" as opposed to "shrink" or "stretch"
11-01-2004, 11:25 AM
Only take off the bad panel, make the buck or contour templates off the good side. With flex pattern and the contour's, you should be able to build your panels with out to much trouble. Go slow and check your work often.
11-03-2004, 03:45 PM
Thanks for both the encouragement and the heads up peoples.
Ken your diagram looks mint, however the only panels I would need are labeled 1 and the panel below 2 :) ie the lower beaver panel.
Jeffory yes I would take it slow, mainly for 3 reasons.
1. I am a perfectionist and would not finalise teh fitment until right (cause me issues sometimes too.)
2. I want it right and only do the job once.
3. This is to be a sleeper and keeper not a fixer and seller... ;)
PS: by the way forgot to add.. Beaver panel corner is a little complex as it bends in two directions, one towards the fron of the car and teh second to the floor. should be possible still though as teh car was made originally. secondly there is a small amount of lead in teh rear to hide the welds/finish the panel fit. I suspect I will need to re do this as well. Lastly, I can weld, practise not really required but i do have a small go on scape before I start on the car just to bring my eye back in.. :) Thanks again
11-03-2004, 06:22 PM
Beaver Panel? ....LOL... You Ausies have a strange language.
Here, we call that the Valance Panel. :D
11-03-2004, 08:03 PM
where abouts in melbourne r u based?
I am in elsternwick (work wise).
I have a place where you can get the vinyl tape at a good price. the fibreglass tape just get it at bunnings (its about $7 or $9) a roll.
if you want to go down this path?
11-04-2004, 05:16 AM
if you want to go down this path?
If he wants to go down this path?????
Flexible patterns are like sex/chocolate, once is not enough!
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