View Full Version : Nibbler Medium
09-29-2004, 06:12 PM
Finally got my Nibbler running. Replaced the 440 3 phase motor with a 1.5 HP 180 volt DC unit and variable speed control. Will clean and paint it soon. Runs very nice.
I owe a lot of thanks to Keith for a number of reasons, not the least of which is getting me focused on the machine form time to time.
If anyone can share knowledge or experience with the the die base (shank) I would sure appreciate it!
09-29-2004, 07:06 PM
Here's a pic of mine, look familiar?
This is a recent arrival and my first big machine.
The truck driver managed to drop the crane boom on top of it while unloading and broke off the main switch. At the moment this is still hanging free. I hooked it up (415v 3 phase power in my garage) to only get some buzzing from the motor. After some investigation I found that the original switch up by the power head was only connecting on two phases when on, so that is bypassed now as well. Works fine from the switch on the wall.
Tooling is 25mm dia shaft. I only got a straight shear with it (previous owner promises more....). I bought some 25mm bar to experiment with and made the beading die pictured, which does work. It needs to have plate surrounding the top die made. The first one I used was way too ugly (torch cut hole and all) so I need to get a 25mm hole made in a piece of plate.
The original tooling has a semi-circular cutout on top/bottom for alignment in the holders that I haven't worried about yet. They are probably only important for shearing blades.
I also made up a straight guide to fit onto the lower centering holder. Just a couple of 20mm pins on welding on a short peice of square tubing, with a length of angle iron (adjustable) bolted to it.
have you been to the factory (http://www.smv.se/PRODUKTER/nibb/med.html) link yet? Product specs and options (tooling) for the current model are there.
09-29-2004, 07:54 PM
I have a nibbler medium that is an older model than yours, but I have a nibbler senior that looks just like yours. The medium takes .010 under 1 inch and the senior is .010 under 1 3/16. You can cut the half circle out of the bottom of the stem on a mill. I made 2 stems with a 1 inch deep half inch hole drilled in the top, and all my tooling has a half inch stem on them. I machine a groove where the set screw holds them in place. I've made doming dies and thumbnail dies this way. This seems to be the simplest way to do the tooling, because I don't have to change stems to change dies. You could also make Ron Naida style universal tool holders but they are a little more complicated. Some more advice thumbnail dies work best with as small a stroke as possible. I use .133 on the bigger nibbler. You also want to run the machine at high RPM. My big nibbler came stock with 2800 RPM, the smaller came with only about 1400 RPM but it's an older model, I tried running it at 1725 and it just didn't seem to work right. The higher speed, and short stroke leave fewer marks.
If I can help with anything else just ask. I'll see if I can get some pics of my tooling posted on here.
10-02-2004, 05:16 PM
Thanks Trevor and Kyle.
Trevor, yes I have been to the SMV site and contacted via E-mail. They have been very helpful. You may be correct about the radius cut out in the bottom being important for directional dies. I had my lower die holder partially disassembled and the "dowel" that locates the die seems to be soft. I plan to make a few of different universal die holders, all with the radius cut on the bottom to avoid damage to the holder.
Kyle, I would enjoy seeing photos as many others would of your dies. Very interested to see how you approached the doming dies. Thank you for the advice on rpm and stroke length. The maximum speed with the new motor is very close to original. It also works surprisingly well at very low rpm. Don't know yet for what.
My best guess is the radius cut in the end of the die is 20 mm. Came up with that by measuring the slot that locates the dowel in the lower die holder (.791"). Can you guys confirm that? I don't have an accurate way to measure it. I'm also trying to determine what lamp goes in the holder. If one of you could remove the bulb and tell me the number I would really appreciate it.
10-04-2004, 12:47 AM
I checked the single set of shearing blades I got with the machine for the cutout radius. On these a 20mm test bar is a little too big. It looks like 3/4" (19.05mm), but I don't have a piece of that size handy. It seems strange that it wouldn't be a metric size. I have no idea if these are original tooling for the machine, but they don't look home made.
How did you get the lower holder apart?
10-04-2004, 03:56 PM
I didn't get it completely apart. I used a puller to remove the knob that adjusts the tool holder side to side. It has a roll pin that attaches it to a another part that threads onto a spindle that moves the holder. If you remove the small handwheel that adjusts die up a down, then the larger handwheel that locks the die holder side to side, then a slip fit cast part you will see an allen head cap screw. That "holds" the spindle in, but it also must be a press fit. I stopped at that point. CHICKEN!!
My advice, don't even bother unless you have to take it apart. I wanted to get a good look at the dowel so I could measure it. Got it far enough apart to get the caliper in the slot the dowel fits into. Did look again at my dies, same test as you except all I have is 3/4" and it's seems too small. My caliper indicated the slot was .791" and I could not feel any slop in the die. That's very close to 20 MM.
If you want photos of the 1/4" beading die let me know. Works nice, used it to vein 18 leaves yesterday.
Does your machine have a lamp in it or the remains? If so maybe you can tell me the numbers on it.
The serial number of my machine is 55767, manufactured in 1962 per SMV. What is yours?
10-04-2004, 06:00 PM
I'm not desperate to dismantle the tool holder, so I think I'll leave it alone. I did take off the lower adjuster and handwheel to clean them up. I also removed the main raise/lower lever from the head to de-rust it. Makes a large oil leak though.
Here is a pic of the bulb in mine. No markings though, and it is blown . I suppose that it is a 15W bulb. This one is 240V to suit New Zealand power.
I would bet that the key size is 20mm. I just did a little test with a marker pen on the shearing tooling and it looks like it is just touching on the edges. Probably some third-party or home-made items with 3/4 cutout.
Mine has S/N 55788 so they are almost brothers, and about the same age.
10-04-2004, 10:13 PM
I'll have to look for the pics I have on file. A friend offerred me 250 bucks for a set of doming dies and a urethane die, I couldn't resist. And I'm not sure if I took pics of the doming dies. If you'll measure the OD of the tooling I can tell you the size endmill I used to put the notch in the bottom of the tooling. Like I said in my earlier post the tooling on both my machines is .010 under a standard size. Best way to do it is buy standard sizes and take off .010 in a lathe. Some other advice on how to use the doming dies. When you first start out use the biggest stroke and progressively lessen the stroke. When you get to the last you should be on the smallest stroke. It won't do any more shaping on this stroke but you can pre planish and also relieve some tension and/or stress at the same time. But don't expext a mirror smooth finish, because of the machines solid stroke even with planishing type dies it leaves a textured finsh. I plan on experimenting with rubber backing up a steel die to cushion the blow and hopfully get a better finish. But with limited throat height you won't be smoothing anything with to much shape. I'll look for the pics tonight, and try to post them tomorrow.
10-05-2004, 06:29 AM
Thanks Trevor and Kyle,
I appreciate your input and help.
My lampholder is much different than yours Trevor. Good decision on the lower die holder. My machine leaks from that lever also. What a coincidence with the numbers on the machines! Caroline at SMV told me mine landed in NYC. There was an airplane plant on Long Island. Figure that was it's first home.
Good input on the doming dies Kyle. Hope in the next couple of months I can get some dies made and offer something besides questions.
10-05-2004, 11:17 AM
A friend of mine now owns the Gruman plant on LOng Island and manufactures Off shore racing boats there...
10-07-2004, 01:25 PM
Hi Bill, I just noticed you live in Cole Camp I live in Jefferson City. I have a nibbler junior that came with original manuals listing specs/clearances for the complete line. Mine came with the doming,louver dies along with the standard set. However I kind of wonder from looking at dies(specifically doming) if different models might not interchange . If I can help with a copy of the manual or tooling specs let me know. Jeff Claypool
10-07-2004, 05:23 PM
Thanks for reply and offer. I've been told the Nibbler Senior takes larger dies than mine. Need to look at SMV site to learn more about Jr. but a little paranoid with electrical storms in area. (Fried modem?)
It's great you are nearby. What kind of work are you doing with the Nibbler?
10-07-2004, 09:36 PM
Hi Jeff, welcome to Metalmeet! between you, Bill and Keith Daleen you are making northern Missouri nibbler country.
As Bill asked, what type work do you use the nibbler for?
Good to have you as a member..........john
10-08-2004, 08:06 AM
John, thanks for the greeting. I've actually been a lurker/member for the past year. I had much to learn and little to contribute. I need to do a proper intro. Along with my personal project (56 international street rod pickup) the nibbler's used for custom automotive, craft/hobby and antique restoration. I am planning on making a set of shrinking dies in the future as well as a quick change/universal set for delrin or hardwood dies. Bill, I also wanted to tell you that my shanks are smaller than those of the medium however, the doming dies are removable from the shank via set screws. My manuals show that there are three dies available just wondering if maybe the upper shank just necked down for the smaller dies. Imho these are the easiest dies to replicate I've ever seen. Jeff Claypool :)
10-08-2004, 08:53 AM
Sounds like you are doing some cool stuff with yours.
I still have much to learn and processes to try. What I do know is about metal shaping is insignificant compared to the knowledge shared on this site. But I'm having a ton of fun learning. Last week I "broke in" the nibbler veining steel leaves with the beading dies.
Got into the SMV site and discovered that your dies have different numbers than mine. You are on the same path as I am with the universal holders. At the Metal Meet going to look at planishing dies. I think I can make the donut shaped concave die shown in the nibbler brochures. I was thinking the upper and lower should have the same sized shank. Noticed with the beading dies if you put them in opposite holders they are exactly centered in the throat. By removing the guides we can have more room to shape a part.
Larry (Pete's metal fab) pointed out that Reed Tool (and others) has round stock with a square hole that should be useful for die holders. Green Bay Mfr. Co has stock with a rectangular hole that could make excellent cutter holders.
Does your machine have the built in light? I'm still trying to figure out the correct lamp.
10-08-2004, 11:01 AM
Bill, The following is a quote from your mediums 1980 data sheet. Electrical cabinet - lockable master switch,fuses,contacters,overload relay,rectifier, transformer for 24 volt operation and light current. I looked all through the three manuals and the only other info is in the 1966 swiss manual. It states "If authorites stipulate seperate connection of lamp, loosen lamp cables and connect them to lighting mains. I don't have a bulb in mine at the present time but I'm planning on it in the near future.Think I'll try a seperate 110 circut. By the way I love the dc setup you have can you give me your thoughts . Jeff Claypool
10-08-2004, 05:27 PM
Thanks for checking your manual. I understand a lot of machinery runs lower voltage lamps. Maybe it has something to do with durability or safety. I mounted a transformer and wired existing socket for 24 volts. Does it look like your bulb would have no threads on the metal part that goes in the socket and is trapped by the threaded reflector?
I ran the DC motor because newer Nibblers have two speed motors. Keith has a variable speed on his P3 and it seemed useful. All the wiring and boxes were tore off my machine at the scrap yard getting getting knocked around. I could not get info on how to wire the motor which had some damage to the case. The DC motor was close enough in size to adapt to the original mount. The motor and control was priced right at Surplus Center (.com).
Original intent was to set low limit at about 50%. The machine will work at very low voltage. Also handy for moving die slowly to check clearance. Can send more info and photos off or on forum if you or others are interested.
10-10-2004, 02:29 PM
Bill, I looked at my light socket. The forward portion of the socket has threaded portion approx. a quarter of an inch long that holds the bulb in place. Hope this helps. Jeff Claypool
10-10-2004, 04:26 PM
Sounds like your machine takes the same bulb as mine. The bulb has no threads from what I can tell. The threaded part that traps the bulb is a reflector. Similar to some flashlights.
On my machine it appears to remove the socket assembly the entire head of the machine must be removed.
If you decide to keep the original set up and track down the correct bulb let me know. If I learn anything will post it as well.
You, Keith and I aren't very far apart. Sooner or later we should get together. Are you coming to the metal meet?
10-13-2004, 10:41 AM
Bill, Your right we do need to get together some time. I noticed Kieths posts a while back and meant to get ahold of him. As far as metal meet I want to go but, have other commitments that weekend. Let's keep in touch. Jeff Claypool
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