Pics of one of my pieces....

[James Burts]

Wray asked that I post pictures of some of my work. The first picture that I came across was of a helmet that I made back in March 2000. It is based on a helmet that is owned by the Royal Armouries in Leeds, England.

This is the original that I was copying:
http://www.klas.com/download/james/original-side-view-sm1.JPG

And here's mine:
http://www.metalmeet.com/photopost/data/500/3426raised-helmet-2.JPG



http://www.metalmeet.com/photopost/data/500/3426raised-helmet-side.JPG


This was made from a single piece of metal. The pattern was a 3/4 circle, that was rolled into a cone and welded. The rest of the shaping was done hot, by hand. I use a rosebud tip on my O/A rig to apply the heat.


--James--

[Gene_Olson]

What gauge metal, James?

Gene

[davecourt]

wow,thats awsome,
great job,
dave court

[hardtailjohn]

I think Dave Court said it well.... WOW!!!
John H.

[Bob Baisden]

thats really cool! 8) We need more photos.

Bob

[James Burts]

I'll see what I can do to come up with more pictures.

This project was 14 gauge CRS.

Since that project, I've been transitioning to use spring steel (1050 mostly). That lets me also experiment with tempering. Starting in the mid-14th century (from about 1360 or so), quite a few of the medieval armourers were tempering their armour-- pretty cool stuff.

--James--

[Gene_Olson]

James.

I got to handle a back plate from an Italian Reniasance set once.
Some sort of foot soldiers armor. It was all duded up with bas relief designs which were done in the fashion of the dress uniform's ornaments. Of course, the net effect was the same as putting those ribs in a car's belly pan, they stiffened the armor.
That piece was incredibly strong and light; it had to be hardened and tempered.

Gene

[Envy Inc]

:shock: That's some awesome work, James! I'd like to be able to form something like that myself someday!

~Adam

[James Burts]

I was able to dig up some in-process pictures from making this helmet.

Here is the pattern:
http://www.metalmeet.com/photopost/data/3419/34262-pattern-med.jpg


The first step I tried was to stretch the upper section of the helmet. I was hoping to create more volume, and save myself effort in pushing more material down.
http://www.metalmeet.com/photopost/data/3419/34265-dished-med.jpg


Then I rolled the metal into a cone, and welded it up. I don't know how much success I had with the stretching I did for the previous photo. It doesn't look like I really got that much shape left after it was rolled into a cone.
http://www.metalmeet.com/photopost/data/3419/34267-cone-med.jpg


Now, I am starting the real work. I'm pushing the top down, and starting to get it round.
http://www.metalmeet.com/photopost/data/3419/34269-pushing_top_down-med.jpg


With this photo, the top is done, and I'm starting to push in the sides.
http://www.metalmeet.com/photopost/data/3419/342611-first_pass_side-med.jpg


Now, both sides are pushed down.
http://www.metalmeet.com/photopost/data/3419/342612-both_sides_pushed.jpg


The shaping is done. How it is time to start grinding it down. For this, I'm using an 80 grit sanding disk on an angle grinder.
http://www.metalmeet.com/photopost/data/3419/342621-first_grinding-med.jpg


Now, the grinding is done, and the edge has been rolled. I have now done the first two grits of final sanding (80 and 150 grit). All that is left is to take the sanding up to 320 or 400 grit, then go over it with polishing compounds.
http://www.metalmeet.com/photopost/data/3419/342623-150_grit_and_rolled_edge.jpg


--James--

[Wray Schelin]

Hi James,

Thanks for the process pictures. I like your method. I have seen in the last few years some pictures on the net of a helmet being raised with no seam and lots of heat. Your method is a lot more efficient.

Do you know how they originally made that same helmet?

Have you been to the Higgins Armory Musuem in Worcester , MA yet?

http://www.higgins.org/

Wray

[James Burts]

Yes, I've been to the Higgins. I've got a customer in Worcester, and spent a couple of days photographing at the Higgins. They have an interesting collection-- some really nice authentic stuff, right next to some really obvious Victorian-era forgeries.

There is quite a bit of academic discussion about the methods of producing helmets. (especially in the 14th and 15th centuries-- after the mid-15th century, the techniques change dramatically, and are pretty apparent how they did things).

There is one camp that says:
1) In order to work from a cone, you would have to forge weld sheet metal.
2) It would be really difficult (impossible??) to be able to get a quality weld over such a long length (especially without burning the metal)
3) There are no surviving examples that I am aware of where you can visually identify where a forge weld runs across the helmet.
...
Therefore, the helmets must have been formed from a flat sheet.


There is another camp that says:
1) The medieval armourer was doing this professionally every day of his life. He would have better skills for controlling the temperature, and probably would be able to do a forge weld of sheet without damaging the metal.
2) The medieval armourer was always looking to improve the production of armour. If starting from a cone would save 50% of the effort, then they would find a way to make it work.
3) Why else would there be helmets that are little more than a cone??

http://www.klas.com/download/james/bascinet1385.jpg
(This is an Italian bascinet from about 1385)

I just can't see a medieval armourer spending lots of extra hours to shape the helmet to a point like this. It looks to me like they started from a cone, did a little shaping, and called it good enough.
I have no way to explain why the weld isn't visible on at least one of the helmets-- the forge weld should have slag inclusions, and by now something should have de-laminated.

--James--

[Gene_Olson]

James,

an alternative

The sheet came from some where.
It was pounded out of forge welded bar made from a bloom.

What if the medieval smiths, like Mexican coppersmiths working from an ingot
with eight strikers around the anvil and a shaker with tongs,
forged their bar directly into a parabolic cone over a small anvil/stake. The pictures of medieval anvils that I have seen are mainly stakes with pointed ends driven into stumps to provide as much mass and support with as little valuable metal as possible and much more portable to follow an army. Such a small anvil would lend itself to making hollow forms, or alternatively it was drawn out of the bar by spinning it axially around the horn.

Making something flat and then giving it dimension again sounds pretty unlikely to me.

Way to much work.

Gene

[Jeff Parker]

Wow!


(bowing in reverence) That is simply amazing. Kind of makes my, eh hmmm, "Metalsmithing" look like scrap metal rejects. But then again, mine are...


Jeff

[mtlscool]

Hi James nice helmet. I am new to metal working but one of my interests are in armour. I have done alot of reading and just started shaping. Have you done a breast and back, arms ect.? I am in the process of making my first helm alot of fun and a little harder than it looks. I have to take some time off of hammering because of an injury, but this is what I have done so far.

Tomhttp://www.metalmeet.com/photopost/data/3422/3970helmside.JPG
http://www.metalmeet.com/photopost/data/3422/3970helm.JPG

[Wray Schelin]

We have to make some helmets this year at MM04!!!!

Even as art pieces these are just too cool to ignore. :D

I bet it would be a lot of fun making them !

Wray

[James Burts]

The way I was originally taught to make armour draws a lot from the techniques that you use to make body panels (break the piece into areas with similar shape, and where the shape transitions make a different part and weld them together to complete the piece). This can make things considerably easier, but isn't an authentic technique, so I've not used it as much lately. I've been more focused on learning to make the shapes all in one piece, rather than fabricating parts, and welding them together.

I wish I could be at MM04 to help organize making some helmets or other stuff. Unfortunately, I have a work commitment and can't get away.

Wray, if there is anything I can do from here to help make it happen (or anything else for MetalMeet for that matter), please let me know.

--James--

[Riddle]

Maybe you could make it to the South East MM in March. And maybe if you helped teach the art of helmet making, Wray would show up...maybe.

Jason

[r.w.dewar]

To see another slant on armour and art check out www.jeffdeboer.com. I just did a quick check on this site and it looks like Jeff has not updated posts on some of his latest works. But, he does work in practically all art mediums and a large portfolio of metalwork in small and large scale. Bob.

[mtlscool]

Hi James,
Do you know of any good web sites that show how to form armour the traditional way? It would be good to learn. The helm that I am trying to make I got the pattern from armourarchive.org
The back and front plates were supposed to rivetted together, but this helm is going to used so I thought some added strength might help. Have you ever tried to raise one with no welding? I would love to see pics.

Tom

[Gene_Olson]

Bob,

I like the ties. :D

http://www.jeffdeboer.com./portfolio/images/past/work11.jpg

G.

[JonD]

Perhaps we could make some from aluminum, easy to shape/planish/polish ?

umm .... but harder to weld !

Jon

We have to make some helmets this year at MM04!!!!

Even as art pieces these are just too cool to ignore.

I bet it would be a lot of fun making them !

Wray