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SS100
05-09-2004, 07:11 PM
First of all I hope this is the right place to ask this question. I've noticed a lot of street rods on TV that don't have any pollution stuff on them, even in California. I live in N.C. and am building a complete car and don't want to put all of that stuff on my engine. Now the Question , How do I get by without it? Is there special provisions for street rods or what?

SS100
05-09-2004, 07:11 PM
First of all I hope this is the right place to ask this question. I've noticed a lot of street rods on TV that don't have any pollution stuff on them, even in California. I live in N.C. and am building a complete car and don't want to put all of that stuff on my engine. Now the Question , How do I get by without it? Is there special provisions for street rods or what?

Wray Schelin
05-09-2004, 07:47 PM
First of all I hope this is the right place to ask this question. I've noticed a lot of street rods on TV that don't have any pollution stuff on them, even in California. I live in N.C. and am building a complete car and don't want to put all of that stuff on my engine. Now the Question , How do I get by without it? Is there special provisions for street rods or what?

Hi Jack,

I believe it depends on the vintage of the motor that you use. If you use a presmog engine( pre1967) your exempt. There might be some newer rules that also exempt low production or low use vehicles. maybe someone else on the site will know.

Wray

Wray Schelin
05-09-2004, 07:47 PM
First of all I hope this is the right place to ask this question. I've noticed a lot of street rods on TV that don't have any pollution stuff on them, even in California. I live in N.C. and am building a complete car and don't want to put all of that stuff on my engine. Now the Question , How do I get by without it? Is there special provisions for street rods or what?

Hi Jack,

I believe it depends on the vintage of the motor that you use. If you use a presmog engine( pre1967) your exempt. There might be some newer rules that also exempt low production or low use vehicles. maybe someone else on the site will know.

Wray

Bambi
05-10-2004, 06:23 AM
Hi Jack,
Wray is partially right. But and it is a big But... For the most part each individual state dictates the rules on modified cars, trucks, bikes etc.
For a start SEMA has a site with different laws and are updated regularly. Next is your own DMV and then there are clubs and organizations in your state that can lead you down the right path.
We have all heard horror stories and some things are true and others are not. Sad but true it is YOUR responsibility to KNOW the laws of your state.
As for the TV shows and that state of California, remember this it is only a TV show, there are no rules, many of us have seen some of the shows where they promote products or do something like painting and have NO safety systems whatsoever.
As with these shows and many of the cars are built in CA or by prestigious people, yet they are never really driven on the street. It is easy for anyone to pop on a plate or stage a little scene of street driving, usually around the block from a trailer to a show.
The reality of the scene is that thay are trailer queens for show and not legal for street use.
As Wray mentioned the year of the motor is sometimes used and in other states it becomes a chassis/body thing. Now with a lot of great new crate motors out there comes another issue again a state thing. In some states you may find that you just got a new crate motor and now it goes under the rules for that year of motor, if it has a smog pump and a catalytic converter, you have to run it.
Don't get caught in the TV show fantasy trap, research the rules and laws for your state and the ones around you, you many times have to obey their laws also. If your build is gonna take a few years then be prepared to make changes along the way. What was legal when you started the project, may not be when completed.
In Connecticut, we just went thru a fiasco with the Emissions Testing Program. It appears that we all will have to go thru it again once they get the problems solved. BUT, in the mean time the powers that be have passed stricter legislation particularly on new vehicles. We will now have more rules like CA and also certain new vehicles won't be allowed and we have to have a certain number of hybrid vehicles. The powers that be fail to realize that most of our polution comes in from NY and other states. Air currents, don't cha know...
Good luck in your pursuit of street rodding

Bambi

Bambi
05-10-2004, 06:23 AM
Hi Jack,
Wray is partially right. But and it is a big But... For the most part each individual state dictates the rules on modified cars, trucks, bikes etc.
For a start SEMA has a site with different laws and are updated regularly. Next is your own DMV and then there are clubs and organizations in your state that can lead you down the right path.
We have all heard horror stories and some things are true and others are not. Sad but true it is YOUR responsibility to KNOW the laws of your state.
As for the TV shows and that state of California, remember this it is only a TV show, there are no rules, many of us have seen some of the shows where they promote products or do something like painting and have NO safety systems whatsoever.
As with these shows and many of the cars are built in CA or by prestigious people, yet they are never really driven on the street. It is easy for anyone to pop on a plate or stage a little scene of street driving, usually around the block from a trailer to a show.
The reality of the scene is that thay are trailer queens for show and not legal for street use.
As Wray mentioned the year of the motor is sometimes used and in other states it becomes a chassis/body thing. Now with a lot of great new crate motors out there comes another issue again a state thing. In some states you may find that you just got a new crate motor and now it goes under the rules for that year of motor, if it has a smog pump and a catalytic converter, you have to run it.
Don't get caught in the TV show fantasy trap, research the rules and laws for your state and the ones around you, you many times have to obey their laws also. If your build is gonna take a few years then be prepared to make changes along the way. What was legal when you started the project, may not be when completed.
In Connecticut, we just went thru a fiasco with the Emissions Testing Program. It appears that we all will have to go thru it again once they get the problems solved. BUT, in the mean time the powers that be have passed stricter legislation particularly on new vehicles. We will now have more rules like CA and also certain new vehicles won't be allowed and we have to have a certain number of hybrid vehicles. The powers that be fail to realize that most of our polution comes in from NY and other states. Air currents, don't cha know...
Good luck in your pursuit of street rodding

Bambi

Hemirambler
05-10-2004, 07:04 AM
I couldn't help comment on the Hybrid cars. I just hear a fella at work telling me he felt it was his "duty" as a concerned citizen to make his next auto purchase a hybrid as they have a HUGE reduction in pollution emmissions. I about fell over laughing!!!! He was a little perturbed to say the least. Once I got my luaghter under control I was able to make my point/s. First off it is a HUGE media hype about all the reduced emmissions. Even the government classifying the electrics as "zero emmissions" - what a crock. All these "non polluting" electric (full time or otherwise) have to get the electricity from somewhere - and while I won't claim to be any sort of Electric Company expert I do live by one and see them PUKE out major crap from their stacks FULL TIME. Last I knew the Electric Power plants were one of the most UNREGULATED industries period! Sure the government does have standards for their emissions, BUT it is often cheaper and easier for them to just ignore the standards and just pay the fines - which are a fraction of the cost of installing and maintaining the "scrubbers" (filters) - or maybe we can compare the Nuclear Power plants - we all know how volatile they are.

I would agree that in Principle it all sounds like a good idea, but in reality they fall quite a bit short.



But to the origional question: It's all state based (for now) - each state makes their own rules. Where I'm at it is all based on the year of the vehicle. The part I wonder about is when someone builds a "new" old style car (meaning New Chassis, new body, new motor- how they get around the emmissions. I think they title these as "old" cars and therefor get around the emissions.

I remember hearing/reading about some of the small time custom motorcycle manufacturers getting some sort of waiver based on the LOW number of bikes produced. Not sure how wide spread that particular notion is, but it seems to me like it might have been federal not state. I dunno for sure.


Clearly the advice to check around your state is the best. You may or may not like what you find. The other "problem" is that some states are "cracking down" on issuing "old" titles. The states that are not cracking down have now made a industry of issuing current titles there which are now easily transferred to a "tough" state.
Maine is an example of a "friendly" state.


Hope it helps

Good Luck




Jacin in Ohio

Hemirambler
05-10-2004, 07:04 AM
I couldn't help comment on the Hybrid cars. I just hear a fella at work telling me he felt it was his "duty" as a concerned citizen to make his next auto purchase a hybrid as they have a HUGE reduction in pollution emmissions. I about fell over laughing!!!! He was a little perturbed to say the least. Once I got my luaghter under control I was able to make my point/s. First off it is a HUGE media hype about all the reduced emmissions. Even the government classifying the electrics as "zero emmissions" - what a crock. All these "non polluting" electric (full time or otherwise) have to get the electricity from somewhere - and while I won't claim to be any sort of Electric Company expert I do live by one and see them PUKE out major crap from their stacks FULL TIME. Last I knew the Electric Power plants were one of the most UNREGULATED industries period! Sure the government does have standards for their emissions, BUT it is often cheaper and easier for them to just ignore the standards and just pay the fines - which are a fraction of the cost of installing and maintaining the "scrubbers" (filters) - or maybe we can compare the Nuclear Power plants - we all know how volatile they are.

I would agree that in Principle it all sounds like a good idea, but in reality they fall quite a bit short.



But to the origional question: It's all state based (for now) - each state makes their own rules. Where I'm at it is all based on the year of the vehicle. The part I wonder about is when someone builds a "new" old style car (meaning New Chassis, new body, new motor- how they get around the emmissions. I think they title these as "old" cars and therefor get around the emissions.

I remember hearing/reading about some of the small time custom motorcycle manufacturers getting some sort of waiver based on the LOW number of bikes produced. Not sure how wide spread that particular notion is, but it seems to me like it might have been federal not state. I dunno for sure.


Clearly the advice to check around your state is the best. You may or may not like what you find. The other "problem" is that some states are "cracking down" on issuing "old" titles. The states that are not cracking down have now made a industry of issuing current titles there which are now easily transferred to a "tough" state.
Maine is an example of a "friendly" state.


Hope it helps

Good Luck




Jacin in Ohio

autocol
05-10-2004, 08:11 AM
I couldn't help comment on the Hybrid cars.


Fully electric cars - I agree with you. You're just burning coal and storing the result in a battery for use later, rather than avoiding combustion of SOMETHING in the first place...

HOWEVER! Hybrids do indeed SAVE a lot of energy (rather than just get it from somewhere unseen) because, while they drive themselves around using a petrol motor, they can then STORE energy that would usually be wasted by braking into a battery, for use powering the car later.

A hybrid car USES A LOT LESS energy than a straight ICE car, and creates less pollution.

And all this coming from a V8 loving hoon...

autocol
05-10-2004, 08:11 AM
I couldn't help comment on the Hybrid cars.


Fully electric cars - I agree with you. You're just burning coal and storing the result in a battery for use later, rather than avoiding combustion of SOMETHING in the first place...

HOWEVER! Hybrids do indeed SAVE a lot of energy (rather than just get it from somewhere unseen) because, while they drive themselves around using a petrol motor, they can then STORE energy that would usually be wasted by braking into a battery, for use powering the car later.

A hybrid car USES A LOT LESS energy than a straight ICE car, and creates less pollution.

And all this coming from a V8 loving hoon...

Hemirambler
05-10-2004, 10:09 AM
Autocol,

I assume you are referring to the regenerative brakes. I don't know enough about the system (efficiency wise) to speak one way or another, but I still have a hard time believing it is a SIGNIFICANT energy savings - at least not in the sense that it would be guaranteed. Meaning that driving conditions would have a huge impact. Obviously stop and go traffic would allow this system (regenerative brakes) to shine - but freeway driving would obviously allow one to see little benefit. Again I don't have any hard facts in front of me to bolster my opinion so I am rather flexible if one could SHOW me different. My BIG PROBLEM with all this is how it is marketed - from what little I have seen it is all pretty misleading. But in this day and age anything more than a tacky selfserving infomercial, I guess, is expecting too much.

Bottom line - the hybrids STILL need constant recharging - as such they are NOT as low emmissions as "they" would have you believe. Of course if we ever got serious about regulating what the ELECTRIC industry blows out their stacks then I might sing a different tune. :wink:

AS I understand it the hybrids came about strictly as a means of subsidizing the limit of the battery. With the battery storage beign the limiting factor the hybrid part allows you to increase your range while still getting some benefits from the battery system.

It'll be interesting to see where this innovation eventually goes.



Jacin in Ohio

Hemirambler
05-10-2004, 10:09 AM
Autocol,

I assume you are referring to the regenerative brakes. I don't know enough about the system (efficiency wise) to speak one way or another, but I still have a hard time believing it is a SIGNIFICANT energy savings - at least not in the sense that it would be guaranteed. Meaning that driving conditions would have a huge impact. Obviously stop and go traffic would allow this system (regenerative brakes) to shine - but freeway driving would obviously allow one to see little benefit. Again I don't have any hard facts in front of me to bolster my opinion so I am rather flexible if one could SHOW me different. My BIG PROBLEM with all this is how it is marketed - from what little I have seen it is all pretty misleading. But in this day and age anything more than a tacky selfserving infomercial, I guess, is expecting too much.

Bottom line - the hybrids STILL need constant recharging - as such they are NOT as low emmissions as "they" would have you believe. Of course if we ever got serious about regulating what the ELECTRIC industry blows out their stacks then I might sing a different tune. :wink:

AS I understand it the hybrids came about strictly as a means of subsidizing the limit of the battery. With the battery storage beign the limiting factor the hybrid part allows you to increase your range while still getting some benefits from the battery system.

It'll be interesting to see where this innovation eventually goes.



Jacin in Ohio

Bambi
05-10-2004, 07:02 PM
Maine was a friendly state as were a number of others. The rules are achangin.
As for small manufacturers they aren't makin no exceptions. You will have to come up with an MOS or Certificate of Origin certificate. At this time you need to have a Senator or Representative in your pocket, a ton of money and an act of God to set up. Too many guys think they'll get in on the MC craze and start buildin frames for money. Advice to love lorned, forget the idea. If your gonna build one for yourself be prepared to deal with your DMV, they may or may not let you use it as a composite. They may tell you that its a done deal and you just made yourself a lawn ornament. In one of my previous posts I mentioned either Oregon or Washington state, if you wanted to modify an existing MC frame you had to see the DMV prior to modifying it.
Cars are the same way, it may be nice to make your own frame but with prices of materials and labor, plus tooling it is sometimes better to shop around and purchase one and do what you have to do to make it yours.
As for buying titles, that is still being done but the powers that be in many states are coming down on it, some are sayin NO and others just tear up the Title you spent a $100 or more for and assigning you a composite Title. Which in many ways is not a bad deal. A Composite Title allows you to have a vehicle, such as a Cobra, a 23 T Bucket without a lot of hassle. It is a legal Title written by a Government organization. In Connecticut the emssions on a Composite Title follow 1969 guidlines, in other words you have to have a PCV valve, no pumps, no cats, no nuthin. Some states Example: say if you have a 2004 Hemi you have to run what the mfg runs on their production vehicles with the same motor, ie, cats, pumps whatever it has you gotta have it.
The states are gonna decide, they make the rules, my advice, not to put anyone with the idea of buildin down. KNOW the Rules, in many cases I would say its best to buy a chassis be it MC or Car and have legitimate papers and have papers for your motor and other pieces. If ain't no fun being shot down by the DMV. You have a ride with no roads to drive on.

Bambi

Bambi
05-10-2004, 07:02 PM
Maine was a friendly state as were a number of others. The rules are achangin.
As for small manufacturers they aren't makin no exceptions. You will have to come up with an MOS or Certificate of Origin certificate. At this time you need to have a Senator or Representative in your pocket, a ton of money and an act of God to set up. Too many guys think they'll get in on the MC craze and start buildin frames for money. Advice to love lorned, forget the idea. If your gonna build one for yourself be prepared to deal with your DMV, they may or may not let you use it as a composite. They may tell you that its a done deal and you just made yourself a lawn ornament. In one of my previous posts I mentioned either Oregon or Washington state, if you wanted to modify an existing MC frame you had to see the DMV prior to modifying it.
Cars are the same way, it may be nice to make your own frame but with prices of materials and labor, plus tooling it is sometimes better to shop around and purchase one and do what you have to do to make it yours.
As for buying titles, that is still being done but the powers that be in many states are coming down on it, some are sayin NO and others just tear up the Title you spent a $100 or more for and assigning you a composite Title. Which in many ways is not a bad deal. A Composite Title allows you to have a vehicle, such as a Cobra, a 23 T Bucket without a lot of hassle. It is a legal Title written by a Government organization. In Connecticut the emssions on a Composite Title follow 1969 guidlines, in other words you have to have a PCV valve, no pumps, no cats, no nuthin. Some states Example: say if you have a 2004 Hemi you have to run what the mfg runs on their production vehicles with the same motor, ie, cats, pumps whatever it has you gotta have it.
The states are gonna decide, they make the rules, my advice, not to put anyone with the idea of buildin down. KNOW the Rules, in many cases I would say its best to buy a chassis be it MC or Car and have legitimate papers and have papers for your motor and other pieces. If ain't no fun being shot down by the DMV. You have a ride with no roads to drive on.

Bambi