Beadblast Cabinet Problems

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

http://www.model-a-ford.com/Dcp10326r.jpg

I have a Waterloo Mfg beadblast cabinet shown in the background of the pic above. I have never been overly fond of the unit and after some recent complaining, I received a new pick-up tube and etc. from the manufacturer. Now it throws huge amounts of media (mostly glass beads) but it seems to turn it to dust in about 30 minutes of usage. I have a 10hp compressor that can maintain about 90 lbs. at the gauge on the tank while the cabinet is in use. The pipe that carries the air is 3/4" and runs about 150' to the unit where it also flows through a Sharpe drier. It then runs from a 5/8" hose from the drier to the foot valve (without any disconnect). I don't have a gauge there at the unit but I figure it must be about 80 lbs. at the unit. IS THIS TOO MUCH PRESSURE?? It just doesn't seem like it should be.

This new pick-up allows me to use about 3 cup fulls of media at a time but in a full day of blasting it will use a whole bag of media which is expensive and very time-consuming having to clean out the old media and reinstall the new about every half-hour. I was told by the dealer in North Carolina that sold me the unit (and the media) that based off of his experiences, the media should last about 20-25 hours for the 3 cups.

I have just about worn out my welcome with the mfg so any help here would be a blessing.

[Richard K]

Brent,

I used to own a blaster similar to yours and used it to clean up motorcycle parts. I do not recall what pressure I used , but the glass lasted for the 20 - 30 hr range. I used to put in a 25 lb unit each time

[davecourt]

try 50-75 psi,
see how that works
i got a crappy little sandblast unit,
haven't used it in a couple years,but i think thats what i ran it around

[rkilgore29]

Hi Brent,

What grit glass bead are you using?

I have found that using too little in the hopper will mean a shorter media life, especially for the finer grit stuff. Some of it is almost powder to start with. Unless I am trying to get a fine finish on parts or am concerned about material removal, I use silica sand. It lasts longer, is way cheaper and is more abrasive. It can be a bit rough on some aluminum parts because it will remove some material.

For the heavy duty work I use aluminum oxide this stuff removes rust, paint and the like quickly. It will remove more material, can cause some lighter parts to distort and is rough on the nozzle. We have a carbide nozzle on the gun, this helps it hold up longer. For some projects I have mixed a small amount of AO with the silica sand, this can be useful for some stripping operations.

[Ron Naida]

Brent alot has to do with the tip. Some are designed to create a vortex or swirling of the air and media to increase the blast effect.

This may be what is breaking down the media prematurely. You might try a straight through tip. Old valve guides work well as tips if you can find a size to fit the gun.

Ron Naida

[Kerry Pinkerton]

... Old valve guides work well as tips if you can find a size to fit the gun.

Ron Naida

Now THAT is another great idea Ron!

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

I think I am gonna try to cut the pressure down by installing a regulator in-line. As it is right now, I have no way to cut it back.

I tried using some #30 (fine) sand blasting sand in it. The same basic thing happened except I managed to "frost" the viewing window glass. As it breaks it down within a few cycles it turns to dust. The dust becomes SO thick that you can hardly see what you are blasting inside.

I have tried the Black Beauty that Northern Tool sells, and although it does strip very rapidy (and it doesn't seem to break down), it does not leave the metal clean enough to pwder coat or paint.

Generally what we do is steam clean a greasy part, then I use 2 cookie sheets in the bottom of my powder oven and place the greasy parts inside and cook them for about 30 minutes at 400 degrees. When the part(s) is just warm enough to touch we do a final rinse in the parts washer. Afterwards we blow-dry the solvent off and go to the bead blaster. If I could make any time at that portion we get a load up to powder and bake. Some of this might be better explained by looking at the pixs on my website. In the restoration biz, probably 1/3rd pf the whole deal is cleaning parts!! That is why this is becoming a real pain.

Back to the blast cabinet, --this new pick-up does not use a draw tube but instead uses a sump inside the bottom drain thus it only needs enough media to fall back to fill a 1" pipe Tee. That is why they say a small coffee can (or a few cup fulls) of media is all I need to use now ....and that amount should last 20 to 30 hours.

I guess when you analyze the operation, the only thing it could be is too much air inlet pressure. I do have a vast supply of tips, and the only noteable difference between a well worn tip and a new one is that when they get too large, it does not create near the vacuum and the media tries to pulsate up the supply hose (doesn't create the vacuum needed to pull the media up the hose to the gun).

[gravy]

hi brent
i think you have too much air pres. we use glass bead at work with about 45-50 psi. one cup of glass last all day. :) and thats two 8 hr. shifts
johnny

[Boogiemanz1]

Brent, I also think that experimenting with pressure and the amount of fill may get your answer.

I have an Econoline cabinet and recovery system. Is there a lot of bead being sucked out by your shop vac? When using fine media, I have had it go out that way.

I have recently started to convert mine to Baking soda, I use this for engine parts. The clean up is much faster with less chance of damage caused by glass beads. Hot soapy water usually dissolves any residual media. Talk about dusty! I'm still experimenting with it........john

[Dutch Comstock]

Good morning Brent, You are correct in having a regulator and guge at the cabinet so that you do know and can control the amount of air going into the cabinet. The problem with not being able to see is related to the quality of your dust vacuam system.The larger part of the cost of a blast cabinet is the dust recovery system.Now that you have your blasting system up you have also increased the amount of dust.Your vacuam cleaner isn`t keeping up. The size of the gun tip is also important. I use full line pressure on my cabinet and my glass beads do last a long time.I use medium grit beads. You should put a mylar pastic lens on the inside of your glass lens to protect your glass lens from damage.If nothing else TIP sandblasting products in Youngstown ,Ohio has a vast assortment of any item related to your cabinet and could upgrade your vacuam system and walk you through the correct size of tip for your gun. Probably when you upgraded the pickup system the new system is made for a low voume air compressor and you have a large volume of air and just have to cut down on your air to keep from destroying your glass beads so quickly.When you get the air and the nozzle correctly regulated you would still need a better vacuam sytem as the one you have will not keep up very long to the dust amount of a good running system.That system is for the homeowner on occasional use. Dutch

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Dutch, respectfully I disagree with part of what you are saying ... but not all. Let me start by saying that the gun, nozzle/tip never changed in this whole process. Just the pick-up. The reason for the change is that before, the draw tube required the cabinet to have approximately 1/2 of a 50 lb bag in it to have sufficient level to draw from. The difference is that now the unit has a supply from the very bottom and thus needs less media to operate which also makes media change-out faster. Anyway that pretty much means that the volume

As far as the vacuum set-up, we go through about 1 vacuum a year under the current method. My guess that means a couple of hundred hours of use and the best part is that Shop Vac warrants their units for two years so my local Wal-Mart never questions a thing. Even so, at $29.00 annually I am still money ahead vs. a couple of hundred for a TiP recovery unit. The other thing I don't think you realize is that I have had no problem with dust recovery for the first 25 +/- minutes until the media turns to dust. Prior to that, we have never had a problem with recovery (previous 2 years). The glass that I have cut locally is $10 and has lasted well except when we went to silica blasting sand, which almost immediately frosted the glass due to it bouncing around.

Where I do feel you are correct is that I need to re-install the regulator, and I need to cut the pressure back to eliminate the shattering of the beads. I'm gonna get the guys to do that tomorrow while I run to Northern and pick up a new bag of beads. I'll let y'all know the outcome.

Thanks everyone!!

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Dutch, respectfully I disagree with part of what you are saying ... but not all. Let me start by saying that the gun, nozzle/tip never changed in this whole process. Just the pick-up. The reason for the change is that before, the draw tube required the cabinet to have approximately 1/2 of a 50 lb bag in it to have sufficient level to draw from. The difference is that now the unit has a supply from the very bottom and thus needs less media to operate which also makes media change-out faster. Anyway that pretty much means that the volume

As far as the vacuum set-up, we go through about 1 vacuum a year under the current method. My guess that means a couple of hundred hours of use and the best part is that Shop Vac warrants their units for two years so my local Wal-Mart never questions a thing. Even so, at $29.00 annually I am still money ahead vs. a couple of hundred for a TiP recovery unit. The other thing I don't think you realize is that I have had no problem with dust recovery for the first 25 +/- minutes until the media turns to dust. Prior to that, we have never had a problem with recovery (previous 2 years). The glass that I have cut locally is $10 and has lasted well except when we went to silica blasting sand, which almost immediately frosted the glass due to it bouncing around.

Where I do feel you are correct is that I need to re-install the regulator, and I need to cut the pressure back to eliminate the shattering of the beads. I'm gonna get the guys to do that tomorrow while I run to Northern and pick up a new bag of beads. I'll let y'all know the outcome.

Thanks everyone!!

[Brian McCollim]

Our bead blaster at work is typically set at 40 - 45 psi at the unit. If we go much higher it breaks the beads down rapidly. We go for quite a while without changing media, but it is not used daily or all day for that matter. I think if you cut your pressure it may take a bit longer to get your parts done, but will make the media last longer. Also, I believe that Dutch is correct about the vacuum unit. It makes a huge difference to have a real dust collector vs. a vacuum. All depends on how much you use it.

Brian.

[Brian McCollim]

Our bead blaster at work is typically set at 40 - 45 psi at the unit. If we go much higher it breaks the beads down rapidly. We go for quite a while without changing media, but it is not used daily or all day for that matter. I think if you cut your pressure it may take a bit longer to get your parts done, but will make the media last longer. Also, I believe that Dutch is correct about the vacuum unit. It makes a huge difference to have a real dust collector vs. a vacuum. All depends on how much you use it.

Brian.

[Bambi]

For what its worth. For normal cleaning and rust removal etc. I use Ground Glass its half the price of glass bead. Sand sucks, it ain't worth usin only outside with a pressure pot. Sand turns to powder as soon as it hits. I use fine glass bead for color and texture, for carburetors and the like.
For the most part I run at 90 psi for delicate stuff I will drop the pressure accordingly, some parts get 40 psi and other get 60 or so.
I spend the money on Carbide Nozzles, well worth the money. I use an 1/8 nozzle from TIP, best price around for some things.
Media I buy from Graingers and a couple other places.
You can purchase a 100 ft roll of underlayment for about 5 bucks. I install a piece on both sides of the glass (plexi) saves the glass.
Good lighting is essential and angling the gun properly will increase the life of the underlayment and will minimumalize the frosting.
Having used several different types of dust collection, the home owners type can with good motors, the pro type units which last me about a year. The conclusion was to buy a shop vac from Home Depot (Ridgid), run the crap out of it and get a new one under Warantee. The Ridgid sucks real good, too good, so I taped over the hole on the deflector on the cabinet. Started with a small hole from an ice pick and enlarged it til it evacuated the cabinet from dust but left media behind.
Must do's... air regulator and good water traps, if doin a lot of blasting, I will crack one of the drain valves in the blasting line, I will lose a little air but for the most part any water is gone.
I built my own cabinet years ago, after using many units in different places, incorporating many different ideas. It runs air tight and with the vacuum it seals up perfectly. I would change some things though.
For those that blast with a cabinet, DO wear a minimumal paper dust filter, it is surprising how many cabinets leak. DO wear ear protection especially if ya have the shop vac or dust collection system in proximety of the cabinet. If the howl doesn't drive ya crazy, you WILL damage your ears.
Paint the inside of your cabinet white or a light color, it will amaze you how much better you can see things and some shadows will disapear.
I have yet to try Baking Soda, I have a friend that does Soda on cars and stuff, but has an immense system to eliminate moisture.
Having a Blast

Bambi

[Bambi]

For what its worth. For normal cleaning and rust removal etc. I use Ground Glass its half the price of glass bead. Sand sucks, it ain't worth usin only outside with a pressure pot. Sand turns to powder as soon as it hits. I use fine glass bead for color and texture, for carburetors and the like.
For the most part I run at 90 psi for delicate stuff I will drop the pressure accordingly, some parts get 40 psi and other get 60 or so.
I spend the money on Carbide Nozzles, well worth the money. I use an 1/8 nozzle from TIP, best price around for some things.
Media I buy from Graingers and a couple other places.
You can purchase a 100 ft roll of underlayment for about 5 bucks. I install a piece on both sides of the glass (plexi) saves the glass.
Good lighting is essential and angling the gun properly will increase the life of the underlayment and will minimumalize the frosting.
Having used several different types of dust collection, the home owners type can with good motors, the pro type units which last me about a year. The conclusion was to buy a shop vac from Home Depot (Ridgid), run the crap out of it and get a new one under Warantee. The Ridgid sucks real good, too good, so I taped over the hole on the deflector on the cabinet. Started with a small hole from an ice pick and enlarged it til it evacuated the cabinet from dust but left media behind.
Must do's... air regulator and good water traps, if doin a lot of blasting, I will crack one of the drain valves in the blasting line, I will lose a little air but for the most part any water is gone.
I built my own cabinet years ago, after using many units in different places, incorporating many different ideas. It runs air tight and with the vacuum it seals up perfectly. I would change some things though.
For those that blast with a cabinet, DO wear a minimumal paper dust filter, it is surprising how many cabinets leak. DO wear ear protection especially if ya have the shop vac or dust collection system in proximety of the cabinet. If the howl doesn't drive ya crazy, you WILL damage your ears.
Paint the inside of your cabinet white or a light color, it will amaze you how much better you can see things and some shadows will disapear.
I have yet to try Baking Soda, I have a friend that does Soda on cars and stuff, but has an immense system to eliminate moisture.
Having a Blast

Bambi

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Well, I went ahead and (re)installed the regulator and gauge, along with new medium grit glass beads. I set the regulator at 50 lbs. and tried the unit. It had trouble even sucking the glass up to the gun. I upped the pressure to 55 and then 60 lbs and it did OK. Not great ... just OK. I changed out to a new tip which increased the cutting somewhat but it still was kinda slow at blasting. We did use the unit for about 4 hours on the same media so I guess I need to find the best pressure. I may try and up the pressure once more and see what happens to the media.

As far as the cabinet, all day yesterday the Shop-Vac kept up very adequately (as it had in times past) so I feel sure the vac system is OK. Matter of fact, the supplier I bought the cabinet from suggested that I try the Shop-Vac routine first and if they didn't meet our needs, then he would sell us a larger recovery unit. The way to tell if your unit is providing enough air flow is to turn the unit on w/ the doors closed and see if the gloves suck inward. Mine come to "attention". Then hit the floor trigger and fill the cabinet with air, then watch the gloves. They should not fall limp. If yours meets that test, then you are sucking enough air to properly remove all airborne dust. Like Bambi, I get about a year's service out of a Shop-Vac. They come with a two year warranty so I load it back into the box and cart it to Wal-Mart where they exchange it under a no-questions-asked policy.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Well, I went ahead and (re)installed the regulator and gauge, along with new medium grit glass beads. I set the regulator at 50 lbs. and tried the unit. It had trouble even sucking the glass up to the gun. I upped the pressure to 55 and then 60 lbs and it did OK. Not great ... just OK. I changed out to a new tip which increased the cutting somewhat but it still was kinda slow at blasting. We did use the unit for about 4 hours on the same media so I guess I need to find the best pressure. I may try and up the pressure once more and see what happens to the media.

As far as the cabinet, all day yesterday the Shop-Vac kept up very adequately (as it had in times past) so I feel sure the vac system is OK. Matter of fact, the supplier I bought the cabinet from suggested that I try the Shop-Vac routine first and if they didn't meet our needs, then he would sell us a larger recovery unit. The way to tell if your unit is providing enough air flow is to turn the unit on w/ the doors closed and see if the gloves suck inward. Mine come to "attention". Then hit the floor trigger and fill the cabinet with air, then watch the gloves. They should not fall limp. If yours meets that test, then you are sucking enough air to properly remove all airborne dust. Like Bambi, I get about a year's service out of a Shop-Vac. They come with a two year warranty so I load it back into the box and cart it to Wal-Mart where they exchange it under a no-questions-asked policy.

[Bambi]

Brent,
If your having to use 50 to 60 lbs of pressure to get the media flowin, me thinks you have other problems.
I never worry too much about air pressure or regulation.
The biggest problems are contained in one word. MOISTURE, WATER is the Number one enemy, being in Tennessee makes me believe you have a lot of Humidity. Even up north here I use a de humidifier in the shop. Wishing that I could have a larger one. The small unit I have sucks out over a gallon of water a day from the air.
Now I don't recall you mentioning whether you have a gun with a trigger or one with a foot pedal.
In my opinion the trigger types are junk, the other style seems to flow more.
In many of the guns in addition to the Nozzle, there is a jet inside.
The pickup tube should be checked, the TIP units work very well, I have to modifiy them for my unit.
One thing is the media that sits in the hopper, if moisture gets in the stuff will cake and plug up the pickup tube and gun assembly.
If I do a lot of blasting I'll empty the hopper and prior to firing up the unit I dump the media and clean out the unit. If you put your finger over the nozzle and apply air pressure it will back blow the unit. Then I take the media that I dumped out and sift it thru a screen to pick out any trash but more to break up the media and put it back in the hopper.
If the media cakes a lot, pop it in an oven and bake out the moisture. The finer the media the worse it gets, as for walnut shells, moisture makes a big mess.
Stayin Dry

Bambi

[Bambi]

Brent,
If your having to use 50 to 60 lbs of pressure to get the media flowin, me thinks you have other problems.
I never worry too much about air pressure or regulation.
The biggest problems are contained in one word. MOISTURE, WATER is the Number one enemy, being in Tennessee makes me believe you have a lot of Humidity. Even up north here I use a de humidifier in the shop. Wishing that I could have a larger one. The small unit I have sucks out over a gallon of water a day from the air.
Now I don't recall you mentioning whether you have a gun with a trigger or one with a foot pedal.
In my opinion the trigger types are junk, the other style seems to flow more.
In many of the guns in addition to the Nozzle, there is a jet inside.
The pickup tube should be checked, the TIP units work very well, I have to modifiy them for my unit.
One thing is the media that sits in the hopper, if moisture gets in the stuff will cake and plug up the pickup tube and gun assembly.
If I do a lot of blasting I'll empty the hopper and prior to firing up the unit I dump the media and clean out the unit. If you put your finger over the nozzle and apply air pressure it will back blow the unit. Then I take the media that I dumped out and sift it thru a screen to pick out any trash but more to break up the media and put it back in the hopper.
If the media cakes a lot, pop it in an oven and bake out the moisture. The finer the media the worse it gets, as for walnut shells, moisture makes a big mess.
Stayin Dry

Bambi

[oldgoaly]

Brent,
there is a part inside the gun that wears out(not the nozzle tip)
i have the tip gun/cabinet and an old skat blast gun in a dental
cabinet, what the part is called excapes me but it is the venturi
that helps pick up the media from the bottom of the cabinet.
it enlarges just like the nozzle, but not as fast.
Good luck with your project!
tt(oldgoaly)
ya still alive!

[oldgoaly]

Brent,
there is a part inside the gun that wears out(not the nozzle tip)
i have the tip gun/cabinet and an old skat blast gun in a dental
cabinet, what the part is called excapes me but it is the venturi
that helps pick up the media from the bottom of the cabinet.
it enlarges just like the nozzle, but not as fast.
Good luck with your project!
tt(oldgoaly)
ya still alive!

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Actually the guys used it for the whole afternoon and it worked great. It is taking some getting used to with the lower air pressure (slower cutting!!) but that was the biggest problem.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Actually the guys used it for the whole afternoon and it worked great. It is taking some getting used to with the lower air pressure (slower cutting!!) but that was the biggest problem.