Lead work

[Carbuilder]

Ok guys I am old & have not done enough lead loading work to count but realy want to get with it on a couple of my projects. I have all the stuff my question is I do not remember when to nutralize the acid from tinning. Do you wipe the baking soda & water after tinning or after all the lead is applyed. Also what is a good baking soda to water ratio. Last what about clean up after filling just clean real good with lacquer thinner & metal etch then.

[redhumphries]

I always clean up after all the work is done filling and all. I use baking soda and water and a grease and wax remover and sometimes I will clean all the metal with laquer thinner.

[rexrogers]

If i re4member correctly and i always seam to forget in-between lead jobs is that you use baking soda after the tinning to remove any of the acid from the tinning butter or tinning solution.

[CARS]

From the Eastwood Tinning Butter jar:

Work in a well ventilated area or (that is weird) wear appropriate respitory protection. Wear disposable gloves when using this product. Stir Thoroughly before use. Apply tinning butter on to bare, clean steal then apply heat. When tinning butter is begins to turn brown, wipe area thoroughly with a clean cloth. Wash tinned area with a paste made from baking soda and water. Dry and wipe clean with Acetone. Surface is now ready for body solder application.


(when in doubt, read the directions :evil: )

[dmc1]

Since the lead is put on and worked in a plastic state, there's a chance that flux could be trapped in folds and pockets in the lead if not cleaned off first. I've never seen problems with paint because of lead work underneath, though.

I have seen heavy bondo practically falling off a door because of rust underneath, but stuck to previous leadwork repairs so tightly that I had to use a cold chisel to chip out the lead along with the bondo.

Dave Cameron

[Carbuilder]

Thanks guys my tin butter dozent have directions & I checked on the internet & watched my dvd they talked about nuterizlizing at begining but never when to do it & I watched the dvd 3 times to see if I missed it.

[Pete's Metalshaping]

One of the bad things about lead, is if you get it wrong while trying to neutralize the acid you run the risk of ruining a whole paint job. You won't notice it right away, it will show up later. There are many things that can go wrong while working with chemicals.

[WC4DOOR]

You don't need tinning butter, just use your acid and a lead bar, then wipe with a clean rag while still hot. It will have a shinny look to it, then it's tinned. Then apply your lead, keep in mind it will only stick to the tinned surface. I wouldn't neutralize until after the lead is applied, if so you run the chance of messing up your tin. After your all done neutralizing, clean your baking soda area with warm soapy water or your paint may not adhear. (just ask your local soda blast shop, and see if the painter didn't wash the project before painting) I have seen a few jobs where the soda didn't get washed off and the paint, primer, everything slid right off the truck.
Just my thoughts after about 60-80 lbs. of lead work.

James

[Carbuilder]

James thanks.

[Rick Mullin]

I do a lot of lead work and have worked with some real masters over the years. I always tin with zinc chloride and use a wipe of the solder bar. I tin the surface by wiping the small amount of solder with a clean white cotton cloth on the heated surface. After which, I wash the area with clean water only. After paddling and filing, I wash with some thinner followed by metal prep and then water. The metal prep will show any pin holes that remain and remove any oxide stains from the surrounding steel. I drill or pick out out the holes, scuff the area with a scuff pad and apply a small amount of tinning solution. I then pin hole the area with a micro torch and some 40/60 wire solder. Wash with water to remove tinning solution and metal prep again. I finish file with a machine file and soap. This system has never failed me in forty years.
Rick

[Carbuilder]

Rick where do you get the zinc cloride. What little I have done I have use the tin butter which correct me if I am wrong zinc cloride with ground up lead to make the paste thank you for explaning you way. I have used the water wash & always metal prep. I just dont want some primer & paint blistering later on a project thanks again.

[shortbus]

What ever type of rag/cloth you use when tinning, just make sure it is 100% cotton. A lot of the 'cotton' clothes today also contain a polyester or other 'plastic' in them. This will make the solder not stick to the metal.

cary

[oldgoaly]

Dan,
look for tinner's red, common for soldering gutters and watertight work, it will be on the shelf next to the sal ammoniac for your soldering irons.:lol:
google it find it close to you, cause it is an acid, they charge more to ship.

[Carbuilder]

TT thanks for the tip on finding it.

[Ron Naida]

http://rubyfluidflux.com/Home.html

Back in the 60's when I taught Industrial Arts we used Ruby fluid.
I seem to recall it was labeled as zinc chloride.

I have seen the radiator shop guys use a pin and a dropper with muratic acid for stubborn pin holes that the solder won't flow over.
Probably because of a bit of left over corrosion or antifreeze contamination.
That procedure can't be paint friendly.
Ron

[Ron Naida]

I just looked at the MSDS sheet on the Ruby fluid site and it
states Zinc Chloride as a component.

[dmc1]

Some old books and mags mention that zinc chloride can be made by adding small pieces of zinc to muriatic acid until all reaction stops ("killed acid"). There was more scrap zinc around then, as it was commonly used for things like sinks, washboards, perforated screens in grain cleaners, and such.

I had some zinc screen on hand and made some. Works as well as the commercial flux I had run out of.

Dave Cameron

[Rick Mullin]

I get my tinning solution from the Barbie Co. They offer radiator shop supplies. They have a web sight. If you can still find one, try going to your local raditor shop for a small sample.
Rick

[Steve Hamilton]

I did a little searching and found Barbeecompany.com
they must be the one that Rick was suggesting.

Steve

[oldgoaly]

Rick,
Flux is generally used on new work, and tinning butter on old or repair work. Have you any tricks on using flux on old / repair work?

[Carbuilder]

Thanks guys I am just trying to get my old torch welding skills back up, I just bought some new cobra gages & hoses for my henrod torch that I have had for 15 years & thought I would try & get the lead skills up also. I just would like to be fairly profecent at torch welding & lead work or as our friends across the pond would say lead loading.

[Rick Mullin]

Terry,
I would disagree with your statement. I use only flux. The key to success is total cleanliness. Flux that I buy from Barbee can be cut with water or used full strength. Tinning paste or butter has a tendency to bridge over dirt and contamination thus causing problems later. With tinning butter, you must thoroughly wipe the surface with a clean white cotton rag just as you would with the liquid. The tinning should be extremely thin. It is easier to see if there is contamination as you heat the liquid. Another asset of the liquid is that you can remove the oxide of older solder thus allow the ability to paddle new solder into the old.